The Kraken

I'd rather we concentrate on the progression of player's abilities rather than focus more heavily on winning matches. The amount of players we've had come through the ranks recently suggests we're doing ok in that department, with JWP the latest in the line of players coming through with spot-on technique.

And the point on this needs to be stressed. There is a very big difference between being a hard negotiator and striking the best transfer fee for your club, than to being awkward and difficult to deal with such that you put off players and clubs so that they actively search out another buying club.

Because Hughes has a decent track record as a manager? Because they have signed some decent players? Because they can attract good players on decent wages? So far they've attracted some decent "been there done that players" and also some attacking options in Park and Hoilett. Their transfers have an element of short-termism to them, but they are good solid signings and QPR will not go down this year, I'd have decent money on it.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying we definitely should have bought Gorkss (although he clearly was a great signing for Reading). What I'm saying is that we got well down the road in negotiations with 3 players, and then for various reasons didn't complete on the deal. The Fontaine deal in particular showed an extreme naievety in carrying out the necessary research, scouting and evaluation of the player (up until he popped out of the taxi on his crutches FFS). This doesn't set a brilliant trend, however you try and spin it and say we don't know the full story. Whether that's happened this summer I have no idea at all, and don't really care. i just hope we've learnt from previous mistakes and that the players we go for are the right players, and ones that we'll actually sign, because time is running out fast and we can't afford a saga for every single transfer we're yet to make.

We didn't hear one side though, we heard two sides. Gorkss himself said he heard nothing more from the club so ended up going to Reading. Whatever the rights and wrongs of whether we should have signed him or not, its a shoddy way to do business.

We know the direct quotes of the player and his then manager as to what happened. Not many conclusions to jump to, are there?

It would be better to have identified the right target in the first place before getting through negotiations with the club and to the point of signing and then, well, dithering. Gorkss was clearly a player who was decent; he had been promoted with QPR the season before, and this season he played for the team with the best defensive record and who finished champions. Yet he signed for someone else NOT because we changed our minds, but because we dithered about. Jemmal is a mystery but we changed our mind on him when he got here. And the Liam Fontaine debacle; we showed interest in a player with such an injury that he turned up for a medical on crutches and subsequently missed nearly half a league season. If you think that's doing business well, and how it should be, then we'll just have to disagree.

The amount of fannying about and pulling out of deals last summer for a CB wasn't a great example of how to do business, that's for sure.

I think the majority on this thread realise that. One or two bedwetters do have the belief that the scouting team sit around scratching their arses until a signing just suddenly appears, but they've been consistently shouted down. Most people just recognise the concern in Nigel Adkins making a statement that he wants to bring in up to another 6 players and the fact that we've completed just one of those since.

Ridiculous comment, isn't it? BFS will do alright for West Ham, think they'll finish top of the promoted clubs.

Jarvis won't go for anything less than £10M, IMO. West Ham had a £6M bid plus £3M in add ons turned down. And Wolves turned down £12M for Fletcher so they clearly don't need to sell. Can't see us splashing the cash for Jarvis (I'd have preferred him to JRod though, tbf).

Personally I think we're worse off than Reading and West Ham right now. Add in the additions we need and, well, we'll see who we get. It comes purely from Nigel Adkins. We tried to bring in Buttner; there's one. Adkins previously gave these comments: "It is fair to say we are going to need to bring another goalkeeper in as Bartosz [bialkowski] did ever so well for us but didn't play enough games. We will bring another one if not two goalkeepers into the fold. "With Radhi Jaidi retiring and the uncertainty over Dan Seaborne coming back, we will be bringing another one if not two centre-halves into the football clubto keep improving." I can't find the quote but we're also supposed to be bringing in an RM (I think you accept that one anyway). So that's up to 6 players that NA himself has shown that he wants to bring in.

OK, but why are you telling me that?

I don't understand your point with Clyne. We'd apparently been in for him a year before but were only a Championship club so he didn't want to come. Once in the PL we went back in for him and got him, presumably because we were a division higher. £7M for an unproven Championship striker is a pretty weird thing to have in your locker for a penny pincher. We've spent well over £10M this summer, with Adkins supposedly keen to bring in up to 5 more players. how much do we have to spend for you to not consider Cortese a penny pincher??

I've heard lower figures mentioned too, so who knows. Either way not exactly a huge fee, but a fee nonetheless. I didn't even mention Gazzaniga who came for a fee. So in fact, none of our transfers have been free this summer!

Blatantly incorrect. Palace were due a development fee for Clyne which was thought to be negotiated at £2.5M. We also agreed a fee with Rangers for Davis for them to release his registration, rumoured to be £800K.

Be competitive with who, though? Adkins clearly wants up to 6 players, where are we if we only end up with a third of that amount?

How have we failed to address this? Adkins has consistently said he wants to bring in 1 or 2 players at CB before the start of the season. Its not a failure to address the issue, its a failure to acquire our targets yet. Once again, you've highlighted areas where Adkins said he wanted to bring players in. The Buttner deal fell through, NA has said we're interested in bringing in a winger. We just haven't done it yet. We've been in for Buttner, bought de Ridder, shown interest in Lens, previously shown interest in a few other foreign players. Who thinks we're 2 signings away? Adkins doesn't, he missed out on a left back, said he wanted 1 or 2 GKs, 1 or 2 CBs, and a winger. That's up to 6 players he said he wants, of which we've got 1. By all means, get concerned we haven't brought them in yet, but there's no need to make things up about our aims and intentions and pretend the staff aren't doing anything or don't recognise the problem.

He's being talked about as surplus to requirements and potentially available for £10M. Wages would also surely be an issue. A loan move would be amazing though.

Just to get this back on topic and away from Alpine's seething rage and p*ssing contest with Hypo... Nigel Adkins: Now we're in August I think silly season is about to begin. Sunderland's £12M bid for Steven Fletcher being turned down; Joe Allen for £15M to Liverpool; Jarvis £9M turned down; Dan Agger to Man City for £23M PLUS Adam Johnson. That's what it takes to compete in the top half of the table in this division, and is hopefully a stark reminder for what needs to be spent on proven players. Taking a punt on lower league players will work to an extent; pressing on further is going to cost a lot.

Such as who? For a proven, young attacking player in the PL (who scored 8 goals last season) I'd be surprised if you got change from £10M.

Furthermore, rumours that West Ham have had a £9M bid for Matt Jarvis turned down. Pretty sure they've got money to spend.

I don't rate him at all. So much so that I think that given that his U21 and Olympics appearances are behind him, I reckon he'll sign for a Championship side within 2 years. He hasn't made the necessary impact on Tottenham's first team (13 league games in 5 years) and, now 22, really doesn't have many games under him at all (and most of them at Championship level). And he doesn't seem to have a position, not good enough for a left winger and not aware enough for left back.

As you say, he got 8 goals in the Premier League from wide. He has played for England. And he's still only 24, so plenty of years ahead of him. Unfortunately we live in a world where Shaun Wright-Phillips was sold for more than £20M, where Stuart Downing was sold for £20M, Adam Johnson is currently being offered around at a "cut-price" £10M (presumably cut price to allow for his wages), and where prospects like AOC fetch £15M (without kicking a ball in the top 2 divisions). £6M for a player like Jarvis, unless Wolves were absolutely f*cked financially (which they aren't), is plain unrealistic.