Gordon Mockles

I'm not that fussed or motivated by a meagre football shirt but simply don't like this design. Shape, pattern & texture lacking & not fussed it's solid red for those obsessed with stripes but the style of this red I don't like. Obviously to differ from Sunderland & the like. It's like an old Liverpool kit. I hope we one day have a return to the Rank Xerox kit Keegan wore. Thick white centre stripe, red on the sides. That was awesome! After all that, it's only just a kit. Got bigger things to think about.

That's a very astute point. It's the passing game we did lack. Getting it actually to the feet under pressure. I hope Adam can continue that trend as his passing and hold up play is brilliant. Especially the twisting, turning, cut in and out style. Wish we had a bit more of that from grass roots level for the future.

I don't think if you're playing second tier football, you're not good enough for England because you are totally isolating the platform this gives the youth to step to the fore like Bale (Welsh, I know), Oxo and the like who may not get the chance against Premier League opposition. I know what you meant though. I think. You mean regular first team starters but they can and do get overlooked playing a league down. Hell, they get overlooked for England purely by managers (Sven and Hoddle for example) who used to select players on status and favour big teams. It's what caused Le Tissier to finally lose patience and speak out against Hoddle in the England B game when Le Tissier did superbly against Russia (Matt had zero luck in a England shirt - England first team game stopped due to crowd violence, chairs being thrown on the pitch, etc.). Le Tiss scored a hatrick v Russia and claimed the captain's arm band....hitting the wood work numerous times too. It seemed Chris Sutton was correct in telling England B to poke it since it meant nothing....and that's what Hoddle and Matty proved. I thought Hoddle put him in, hoping Matt would play poorly and he could justify his omission in being taking to the World Cup - in favour of taking the permanently injured Darren Anderton who seemed to get picked regardless of form and fitness. Still, digressing, I like Lallana a lot but he lacks a stunning shot which is a critical part of the game and his biggest weakness. I can shoot harder!! He scuffs a lot and has improved but his natural ability striking is just not all that powerful. His skill and ball control amazing but there is so much more needed at this level when you look at the talent surrounding players. His pace is an issue but his skill and hold up play balances that so I don't buy the pace problem. Even Oxo has been dispossessed a lot more, showing the ball and having a shrewd defender timing the challenge and not falling for his tricky foot work. Different proposition running against Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lescott, Richards or Clichy. As people say, he is good and I like the loyalty of our supporters but some are a bit biased and not realistic. There is far better out there although I wish Adam well and hope he improves but, as CB Fry says, I don't think he's going to improve "that" much. I think he may have a blinding season, full of confidence after 2 back to back promotions and I would love him to prove me wrong and score 15+ goals but that's hard enough for a striker like Ricky at this level. Not making PL football into an impossible mission to score. It's not but the gulf in class we have become accustomed to is huge, bigger than when we were last here.

Are you being sarky? Assuming so. Plenty of time. I do question how we now seem to hype transfer windows into more than they are. I just hope we shore up the shaky defence which will leak goals PL & looked vulnerable enough in the EPC. A top quality, midfield talisman & I am happy. LM back up for Adam or cover if Lallana is played more central .

I think midfielders are expected to head, pass, shoot & tackle. It's just their key abilities & strengths which dictate where they sit in the formation. The Makalele comment is nonsense. He'd happily be welcomed into any top flight European league if he were a fresh faced 21 year old again!

Exactly. Morgan is decent & I'm very keen to see how he adapts as I'll think he will further improve but he plays the Safri role more than gets forward. I am unsure how successful Morgan is going forward & I think we've tried & he hadn't set the world alight as goal ratio suggests. He's suited sitting deeper, spraying passes through. I'd like an addition in what you ask - an athlete & fierce (not 2 footed Hammond fierce) & biting presence in the middle which is what we lack. Suitable for PL level anyway .

You're missing the point. They wouldn't need to. They weren't totally inept & broke down oppositions attacks & turned it into counters. Feeding team mates either side & sometimes, yes even if they weren't the most gifted passers, they'd pass effective through balls leading to goals or players forming assists. Stranger things have happened. Ideally, I'd love us to spent a wedge & get a real classy passing, ball winning leader to captain from the middle. At this level, you need someone special. We need to bolster. It's a huge full in class & even bigger than when we were here last. I think some on here, judging by responses, don't release by how big a leap in class.

Errrr, no it hasn't captain smug! Clubs always need a ball winner. Maybe with more finesse but middle of the park control will always be key. It's just how you go about it. If you spill control or pass like England, a player fired up & determined, sticking a keen foot in & making a last ditch interception is a great asset of a midfielder. Or has that changed too? Patronising goon!

Butland is a where Jimmy Sommerville goes on holiday!

I don't think MLG has the agreement gene - a chromosome missing from a strand prevents agreement! I think MLG would start a feckin argument with a pub beer mat!! Almost every thread I've looked at descends into posts and posts of rhetoric argument & the thread subject at the hands of the same Internet Warriors. No offence & I know my posts ramble but really, do you need to so vehemently battle every minor point? In fairness, this thread is play school compared to some bickering merrigorounds. Each to their own.

Whilst you're both playing the clique card, I'm not getting on Hammond's case. He served us well & had a purpose. He's just not a PL player. I was happy to see him appear less last season but he put in some good shifts but he will never be a luminaire in midfield & whilst many may pipe up that a decent midfielder doesn't get noticed, this can be true but I much preferred Cork & Morgan (sounds like a brand of rum!) & Hammond's game lacks too much for PL football. As for LB which was the actual position in question, Harding needs to go along with Dickson. No time for sentimentality (although Harding isn't one for that anyway!) Thanks lads.

Looks like he may be PL calibre unlike Deano!! (& clearly in the relevant position)

I'm ambivalent about Guly. He brought interesting elements to the squad that we lacked in league one (deft touches, intelligent through balls, pinged passes on occasions straight to our forwards feet) but did look less suited with the physicality of the EPC. He certainly was the new fall guy & had unfair criticism. Often wasn't great but I totally agree he's a confidence player. I think most players are, some more effected by fickle fan jeers as I think was unfairly endured by Guly. Back on track, the reason I mentioned Guly was he may improve in the PL but late last season he bugged me how he just wouldn't jump or bother challenging for headers which is poor for a professional footballer. He would work hard in games & track back on occasions but I think we need a player who keeps possession better & I fear he MAY lose us possession in dangerous positions. I would much rather a strong RM bursting along the wing (De Ridder as back up but deserves a chance) & Lallana in the middle again with a ball winning, competent CM in a Viafara/Quashie/Carlton Palmer type bulldozer picking up loose balls & mopping up or sticking a gookie leg out to block through balls & winning back possession. I like how Chaplow does this & he has a good engine but I'd rather someone that sat on the centre spot, someone that didn't over commit & leave Morgan & the back 4 exposed if we had Lallana, Lambert, Lee/Rodriguez & RM & LM pushing up with possible LB/RB flanking. Someone quick enough to track back & fourth.* What do I know but just a theory. I would love a good bulldozer to break up the play in the centre circle. Worked well in the past. I feel we have Chaplow but he's not that player despite his great interceptions. He does push up. We need a clogger to break up play as we will sure as hell need it against the quality midfields in the bigger clubs. They will boss matches but a Marsden type engine on a good tackling set of legs would transform our squad immeasurably. Can't think of anyone that suitable. Would like to see Guthrie replace Hammond if free but can't think of any candidates for a real solid central midfielder dictating the tempo. Any suggestions?*

I like to consolidate! LOL I did think I'd digressed (I'm the king of digression as England are to losing on pens!) somewhat in the post above too. OOPS!!! Too much footy talk to get in a lunch break.

Do you mean Andrea Pirlo? By far the one to watch and he did as expected. He's utter class and way beyond our realistic reach to prise anyway from Juve but I appreciate your remark made in jest! We're only just back, give it time if we proceed in the correct manner but we aren't a club of that stature yet. Still a lot of rebuilding to be done but I am confident we can achieve more, with the sustained development and wise funding and investment. We just don't need upheaval or people to leave in the board/management since that is the foundation of any successful club...combined with a clearly competent manager and coaching staff! Derrr!! Hodgson? He gives them instructions but it's not his fault if the players don't do what they're told and I'm fairly sure he didn't ask them to give the ball away and get caught in possession. Tactics are key but as individuals we are poor and will continue to be until we have a major change of mentality combined with technical skill. We think we are better than we are but luckily, many this time (clearly not you, no offence meant), finally realised we are just not very good. Cole and Terry did well. We have some great individuals but no cohesion. How many times have I said that? Capello, Sven *spit*, Roy...I don't think god himself can get a world beating squad out of the players on offer. When will the media stop blaming the manager and put it down to all the factors. The team are not good enough. If we were, we would still be in the tournament and we played a mediocre Italy with one of the worst penalty records.....bar us of course. The Kings of Cr*p penalties!! You can write a script by it but I gave up caring internationally long ago. Too much disappointment. You wouldn't continually run into a brick wall and hurt your head, would you? Hence why I stopped caring as much about internationals. Players play so many games and don't seem to deliver, for whatever reason. It's not worth the heart ache. Club football for me any day of the week!! Loved the past few seasons. Sadly, that winning feeling won't nearly be as prevalent, but watching the big teams and world class players will be fun!

Matt Phillips would be good but I am very unsure as to Guly in the PL. He may improve with the space but I have a feeling his lack of jumping for headers, showing too much of the ball and hesitating will get punished in the PL with the pace and physical nature of the league. It's more intense.

That's a good post and I'm inclined to agree with you. I thought had an issue with wanting to earn money. We all do. But, the money they earn is mental and Owen - on reflection - does seem to have this new age footballer mentality which is awful. Like the world owes them something cos of their talent but I guess that's what happens when you earn in one week what the average UK worker takes 3 or 4 years to earn and are surrounded by yes men, coaches bigging you up and clubs wrapping you in cotton wool to protect your sensitive feelings from doubt which could lead to a bad performance. They must eventually believe the hype...then there's agents stirring matters up even more. Oh well, it's fun to watch. I agree, footballers should want to play. In retrospect, it's like turning up to work and doing the bare min, leaving on time and refusing any overtime. No commitment or care. Contracts should be honoured and I do think companies would happily have us work countless, free overtime hours (unpaid) yet would they allow us the odd impromptu day off? Or course not but we should have a mentality of care which too many, in and out of football or in our arena (middle classes), don't have these days. In that respect, we'll never be like footballers - they get paid whether they play or not but it's all the training and coaching the bulk of their work. It's the matches that are the scrutiny and platform for all. I've digressed massively, I apologise. As you say, we have a great mentality built up and an unusually good team spirit for which I am proud of Nigel and his team. Only bring in those of the right mental capacity (unlike Puncheon and the actions spell it out as a good lesson to those bad boy/ego types who like to draw attention and ignore the rules - no place at Southampton). Great football article (SHOCK) by Le Saux in The Echo. Sums it up well, hence why Hammond shouldn't not be near the squad. Creates very little, slow, reads the game a little slow yet doesn't really defend that much. Nullifies his use and he'll get sent off like a shot with some of his clumsy, reckless challenges. Interested to see how Morgan Fares and Chaplow works hard but does he have the quality for PL? Maybe good as back up. Would love to see a few quality additions spread across the squad, excluding forwards. Lots of rumours and talk but not much yet. Now the Euros are over, hoping it hots up.

Indeed. I often question Adkins tactics but I do admire his psychology and player support and pressure avoidance. However, his recent comments on the Official Site do strike me as smacks of a mentalist or a bit simple with his perpetual mantra and dull repeated statements. Just speak the truth, not propaganda. It's boring. Yes, hard working bunch, Premier League, it's exciting isn't it and words to that effect! LOL It sounds almost a bit "speshal". Bless him! A friend had a chat with Jo Tessem last season and he wasn't sure if we had many PL caliber first choice players and I have to agree. He even was unsure about Adam and he is, to be fair, yet to prove that. He has become a bit of a figure at St Mary's and rightly so and I hope he shines but it's such a gulf in quality, there realistically is no guarantee he'll blossom. I'd like to think so and feel he will do well having done it "the right way" (not hat anyone can bellittle Oxo's call up, snidey club response and improved wages) and having player constantly with tons of match experience and lots of lower league experience to develop, score, assist and build himself into the player he now is but he is now in Nirvana. On the big stage against world class defenders. Like watching Oxo show too much of the ball and losing possession in the Euros. Not so easy skinning players and running fearlessly against clued up defenders at the top of the game as opposed to trouncing past Dagenham and Redbridge defenders. Still, wish him well. I don't like the bitterness to anyone leaving. F*ck me, if a rival company offered me a 700% pay rise (pure guess), I'd be out the door quicker than the a banker can conjure up a false flag terror plot to infringe our civil rights and benefit their shadowy business ethics!! Oh, it's refreshing for fans to finally realise England aren't very good. Miles from Spain and Ze Germans. I gave up long ago so wasn't bothered. Makes me laugh all the fans getting narked. What do you expect? Some should learn from history. You could write a script for the next World Cup. I suppose what we lack in skill we gain in blinded optimism. It's good to read so many Twitter and FB feeds of sense for a change. I was more proud of that than the football. Roll on the new season...if we can quickly squeeze in a summer before it starts, all the better.

No more than hollow arguments and berating opinions even more outlandish than your own obscure argument! ;o)

Haha. That's about as insightful as ITV commentary. "The team to score next, breaks the deadlock". I appreciate the tongue in cheek tone. It's ITV banality or inane comments from Lawrenson. At least Sky have decent coverage.

Would be amazing but I don't think we could afford him nor would he want to come. He'd want medals and we have a way to build to consolidated PL team again. Small steps but think that's a bit too wishful thinking. Would be amazing, don't get me wrong but the wage structure won't be smashed and no amount of agent grovelling will change that. Hard cash talks!

Everyone berates player principles but would you not do the same? Football is a passion but when it's your job and you have grueling, long term injuries, your views may change. You're still paid but have to find some outlet. Would you stay in your job and not go to a rival company and relocate if you you had a 150% pay rise? Or the location suited your passion? Footballers do earn big money but many live to their means. Footballers get shed loads, too much, but have a short shelf life. For me, I would clamber for every penny I could in the key years since there is no guarantee you'll get a job as a condescending, questionable sway BBC sports pundit with a bad haircut or inept ITV commentator. In rarefied money circles that Owen is lucky enough to circulate, he may be very shrewd in combing his career/boosting his wealth through a passion or business deals that can take over as his football career ends rather than the stereotypical route. Or he just loves horses and has enough money not to worry. Whichever, he doesn't have to be of an obsessed, loyal and die hard, dedicated footballer mentality as fans expect. He may have got bored and fallen out of love with the game and constant training. It takes its toll. Yes, we're jealous we don't earn that but no harm in preparing for retirement or your next new venture/investment. When you have money but no more assured large income, you make new plans. Maybe Owen just doing that...or he is just money hungry but I am too. I'd rather earn 5 times what I earn. Who wouldn't. Just cos you earn loads, doesn't mean it's immoral to want more. Bit greedy possibly since he's minted and actually, Owen is a bad example. I do think he acts like football owes him something like many big names or their talent deserves such riches, if that isn't unfair. Arrogance I am unsure although it's the staple for millionaires and footballer on the stage they are on, particularly attacking players, have that in abundance. Maybe that's what killed our international pride. Fame rather than pride. Sad modern attitude but I'm not here for social rehab. Britain is already broken. I always love the stories of Balotelli - buying an entire fore-court of a petrol station fuel, helping the kid being bullied, homeless man given a grand and the police pulling him over and asking why he had tens of grand lying on his seat....."Cos I am rich!" if that figure accurate. Wayne Bridge was out drinking with a rucksack with thousands in. Bit silly as people know what they earn and only takes one person to see to get you mugged (esp. at the mo) but got to laugh at their attitude. I'd probably sp*nk money and chuck it around like Marcus Tandy if I earned it but put it to good use too (I like to think, in these times more than ever since corporations running the world don't seem so fussed about the common man - what does power breed? Greedy megalomaniacs intent on more power). I sadly, earn in a year what many PL players do in a week. Lucky feckers!! I want more players like Balotelli - Spread the love and the cash...just cos it's cool and very amusing.

I hadn't read all the comments before posting but this is pretty much what I said. Well, not what I said, principle that Adam is not assured. The sentiment. I agree with our self-assured troll chastiser! ;o) Adam would really have to perform at this level to even come into contention and I think his game is lacking in key areas. I love Adam but doesn't mean he's PL elite which is what international is...supposedly. Gotta laugh at the internet arguments. Some just like to poke the fire but is refreshing to hear a balanced opinion. I too suffer fools gladly but not like you CB to be name calling. Don't take the bait. Silly opinions are standard. Spend 90mins at St Mary's and you think some fans have UEFA super platinum badges with Barcelona honours. They clearly know better than all the lifelong professionals and to the grey haired bloke with no neck in the Chapel that taps his watch every stop of play - we're aware the match is timed you numpty. Moron next to him berated Davis' position on one conceded goal off a free kick one match. "He should have stood more to the left, you're an idiot Davis!" Errrrr, what, stood behind the wall? Yep, genius. Then fans that actually know what they're talking about may comment. HELLO!!! *knocks skull*

He has exquisite ball control but he's by no means streets ahead or he'd be picked. Odd Carrick didn't go although shows player pride these days when no first choice, egos don't allow them to play second fiddle. Money breeds that and cotton wool treatment by the clubs. Adam lacks a powerful shot, pace and isn't a great tackler. It'll be interesting to see how he fares against world class defenders. Parker works hard, good engine. England just aren't that good. Wasn't fussed after Italy as expected no less. Nice to see our fans finally realising what I've said for 5 or 6 years. Over hyped tabloid talk. We're way off Germany and Spain. Would be nice to see international prospects in our squad get a call up. Ricky, Adam maybe, Jay Rod or Shaw...if he gets an appearance and does develop. Butland would be a good acquisition if the scouts reports are solid which I have no reason to doubt although some tough competition and I don't think we have the disposable income the club lead us to believe. Not knocking us as we recruit fairly well now but would like to see us move more earlier to bed players for preseason. Lots of freebie talk which is shrewd like Tadanari, Chaplow, etc. and the Rangers rumour could be astute, the Czech guy too. I imagine Jay Rod bought with Oxo money but lots of talk of a big budget for the premier league but with the constantly undisclosed fees and club liking to make us think we have billionaire backing (which we do but how much is disposable?) with comment alluding to transfers by Adkins and staff, not as much has been realised as we hinted. Maybe cos we struggle cos clubs think we have more money than available, or Adkins fails to attract them or Cortese hard to deal with or just cos the funds aren't there...or they are but we won't overspend what we have which is shrewd but not so clever if we hold back so much and give such a hard time, agents overlook us. Maybe conjecture but I would like to see a few more of these many rumours realised as we certainly need 3 or 4 key signings of PL calibre after shifting out the dead wood (bar the last of that idiot's legacy who shall be named, Forecast but that was down to a stupid length deal which I swear was his parting 2 fingered gesture to stitch the club/fans when his writing was on the wall - 5 year f**kin deal for that donkey and wrote off the Bale money = moron!!) Adam I hope gets a look in but I would say better out there.

From how I understood it, it all kicked off when Puncheon made a comment undermining the manager, in a hissy fit after Pardew left because Pardew wanted Puncheon but he was further down the pecking order under Nigel. It was rumoured he made a comment along the lines of "what do you know, you're just a physio" to which Cortese got wind and told Adkins to not take any stick whatsoever from players and rightly supported the manager and Jason was flung in with the reserves. Since then, they made up and we had a need for JP but Puncheon is an idiot with questionable attitude problems but what's new in football. It says a lot about our nation when the national football team can only get motivated by money playing for their individual clubs (Rooney, etc.) and perpetually throw away every major tournament internationally. It's all about the mentality, not just the skill.