hypochondriac

I never claimed there were. What I said was that this particular place I visited was inspiring and I agreed with the philosophies they said they followed and the reason why they made the furniture and play equipment that they did (play equipment which you will see in virtually every nursery setting in the country by the way.) I had no idea what to expect and I have no clue what their childcare is like but their philosophy was very interesting.

UKIP and tory way out in front for me. Good to see.

Well as you have never been there nor seen this particular group (and as I can see nothing referring to this group in particular in Kent) I'm quite happy to take what they have said at face value. Even if they are some sort of secret evil sect, which I don't believe, they make excellent furniture and their story was inspiring. I'm not advocating sending children to them to go and live, nor am I saying they are perfect, I am simply saying I agree with the values they are saying they promote and they appeared to be extremely warm and friendly individuals and my day was certainly brighter for having visited.

Again, go there and judge for yourself. It's much better to speak from personal experience on these matters than to form your opinion based on a website. Personally I found the people I spoke to very enlightened about the outside world and earnest about giving children positive experiences. I'm saddened at the turn this thread has taken to be honest, I was hoping to avoid conspiracy theories for once.

The Go and visit for yourself and form your own opinions. Much more useful thing to do. Besides, the flaws in their organisation do not make their views in childcare less valid.

Tbh that's a pathetic comment as you have never been there. Read up on visit yourself then you wouldn't be so ignorant: http://www.communityplaythings.co.uk

I've worked in childcare in this country all my adult life and have visited Scandinavia twice to look at how they do things over there. It is not perfect but it is better than the system we have here.

I think that unfortunately there are a number of parents who either through neglect or ignorance do more harm than good for their children. Much of this can be fixed through Education though as most parents do want to do what is best for their children but they have never had the skills to do so. I would recommend the incredible years course in Southampton and not just because I have a hand in it

As an update to this, I've just spent the day at community playthings near Kent. For those who don't know what that is I would highly recommend reading up on them. They are a Christian community that make furniture and play equipment for nurseries. They are a community of about 300 here but they also have locations in Australia, USA, Germany and South America. They have being going since the 30s and during the war they had to flee Germany so ended up in England. Yes they dress a little funny and they sing before lunch but today's visit was truly inspiring. They run their own nursery and school for their children and encourage children to do practical activities in the afternoons, building dens and playing in the woods. Their philosophy of children learning through play is something I wholeheartedly agree with and the results speak for themselves. They were really welcoming and warm and I would seriously recommend a visit if anyone gets the chance.

This basically. Odd that Francis thinks there was desperate criticism from day one when that is not my recollection at all. At the first fans forum he was actually clapped in and out of the building. I also agree that it pretty much could not have done better off the pitch (other than maybe some poor recent transfers). Obviously everyone who thinks this way has an agenda though.

Do you have any sort of criticism for the liberal Democrats? Serious question because your last two replies on here seem seriously deluded. You sound like the chief spin doctor from the Lib Dems who was on the BBC last night.

Glad you liked it minty. Here is another one if you are interested.

Certainly some of what he has come out with today is not only worrying for the future of our children, it's incredibly insulting to the huge number of professional and dedicated early years workers across the country.

Do you think clegg won the debate?

WHen you post on these subjects BTF I like you more and more . The whole schooling system is flawed because it teaches that people below a certain intelligence level have failed. I want people to be able to reach their potential and to have fulfillment and happiness in their lives but they don't bother with that sort of thing at school (and increasingly if the government get their way at nursery!)

Why are you lumping nurseries and schools in together? They are completely different and should perform different functions. Why for example should a child be forced to read at three if they do not want to? What life advantage do they derive from this that they would get over for example learning to read at five?

Now this I will have to disagree with you on the strongest terms. Not sure what you mean by the status of early years workers. My point was that ensuring that children are cared for, shown love, compassion, looked after properly, allowed to try things and fail etc etc should be the most important goal that we as a society has since there is no doubt that it is these factors that directly effect children as adults. There is no doubt that there are a number of factors that contribute to life chances but there are any number of studies (as well as my own experience) that conclusively show that there is a direct correlation towards effective childcare and a secure childhood and someone's outcomes in later life.

Well said...

Hopefully I've outlined some of what I think there. I mostly didn't say much at the start because living and working where I do, I am obviously heavily biased towards rejecting the current government crusade. I see children and their learning on a daily basis so I have actual experience and know what works best for children. I am worried because I think career politicians with no experience of childcare are deciding what is best for our children. I am concerned by this because I recognise the clear correlation between achievement and wellbeing from a young age and then subsequent achievement and wellbeing in later life. As someone has already said, school readiness is code for forcing children to conform as soon as possible. School readiness is designed to kill creativity, individualism and force a child into an adult world before they have even started to be children. This approach goes against the vast majority of studies and is not supported by anyone with any experience of working in Early Years (that I know of). I would suggest that anyone who has not done so watches this video as it says a lot:

O rly? What in your mind is the difference

It's the job of the nursery to work in partnership with parents to reinforce skills and values from home. It's not the easiest thing in the world but you get used to it!

Your comments fly in the face of all research on the subject. Scandinavians are freed because their early years workers are trusted as professionals to look after the children on an individualised basis, tailoring any 'learning' to each child and allowing them to come to concepts such as mathematics on their own rather than being forced to learn concepts whether they want to or not from an earlier and earlier age. Interestingly I am showing a Swedish nursery owner around today and she has expressed similar thoughts (albeit she says it is going more the way of the UK depressingly.) if you do have an interest in the subject, then I would suggest reading any articles from the brilliant Alistair Bryce clegg who has his finger on the pulse regarding these matters.

The reason for the success in Scandinavia is down to two things. Firstly they recognise the value in early years education and trust their staff as professionals to look after their children without inspection regimes and without an early years curriculum. Staff here are undervalued by the government who never takes a long term view. Investing properly in children from the earliest ages will save millions in later life through antisocial behaviour levels, NHS bills etc etc but this is never recognised. Secondly Children spend their days learning through play and looking at things they are interested in. Children are then excited when they start school and a love of learning is fostered naturally and not rammed down children's throats. The answer is never school readiness, but making children ready for life and an absolutely huge part of this is allowing children to be children not forcing them into the uniformity and greyness of the school regime at an earlier age.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26853447 comments out today by Michael Wilshaw, the chief inspector of Ofsted who says that nurseries are not preparing children for school. He wants a greater emphasis on structures learning, the removal of learning through play and the notion of free-play and the introduction of school-based nurseries. This view concurs with the current government thinking headed by Elizabeth Truss who believes in the "schoolification" of early years and an overhaul of the ratio system so that more highly qualified staff can look after a much greater number of children. These approaches would put us more in line with France and differ greatly from other European nations such as Sweden and Finland where they have no formal Early Years education and do not start school until they are seven in many cases. As someone who has a vested interest in these findings and who has strong opinions, I would be interested in your views on this. Should we be supporting the government in this? The inspector recognises quite rightly that the Early Years sets children on a path for life and so it is vital to concentrate resources to Early Years at it will save us money in the long term. I would love to hear your thoughts.

That's a very good point actually and one I'm inclined to agree with. No going back now though unless there is a big crash.