CHAPEL END CHARLIE

I shouild take more care before accusing others of 'arrogance' when posting nonsense like this. Although separate satistics for UK nations GDP are not recorded any reasonable anaylsis of the relative economic performance and population size of Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdon of Great Britain & Northern Ireland will show that Scotland is a relativly junior partner in the union from both points of view. Hence any future division of UK defence assets would surely see a (very) clear majority of said assets heading south of the border in short order. Population of UK from 2004 cenus: England - 50m Scotland - 5m N Ireland - 1.7m Wales - 3m The relative size of each nation's population providing a handy 'rough and ready' guide to their respective economic power within the union. I can only hope you are now better informed Sir.

The defence issue is a interesting one. A fully independent Scotland becmes a pretty small country in the grand scheme of things, with correspondingly minor armed forces to match. What happens when all those shipyard workers on the Clyde realise that they're out of a job when Royal Navy orders (such as they are) dry-up ? Much the same could be said about most RN, RAF and army bases north of the border - which are bound to close with serious implications for Scottish employment. This is why the SNP has only limited public support for independance at his time. A stright 'yes or no' vote must return a 'no' vote because too many Scots have too much to lose. There about another million other good reasons why the break up of the union would be a grave mistake for all Britions, but the economic arguments may be key.

God's speed HMS Daring and do us proud, a fine ship being put in harms way it would seem.

To order to know where you are going to, then surely it helps to know where you are coming from. A basic understanding of the long and remarkable history of the union and how it came into being - and just as importantly what went before it - is I would say an essential grounding in order to comprehend the true value of what is being put at risk her.

The peoples of these islands we share have been through so much together since the founding of the Union that there's now far more to unite us than there can ever be to divide us again. United by monarchy, by geography, centuries of shared history and a common language, I can see no good purpose whatsoever in consigning our union to the dustbin of history for reasons that make no sense at all to this proud Britain. I can't even imagine why anyone in their right mind would even consider such a act of sheer folly. We built the greatest empire the world will ever see together. In victory and defeat our blood flowed together over the killing fields of the Somme and deep in the awful mud of Passendale. In 1940 we stood together as one against the evils of dictatorship when all else failed, and at the final reckoning we were triumphant together. I say our union is our strength, and to throw it all away now would diminish us all.

The death of a child must be the very worst thing life bestow on anyone, but grief is the price we pay for love they say .... and what a terrible price his loved ones must be paying tonight. I'll spare them a thought for what it's worth.

I love the Top Gear more than any grown man should care to admit. I'm very well aware it's often heavily scripted and that much of what you see on it should be taken with a pinch (sorry make that a bucket load) of salt. This programme is disgracefully irreverent and shamelessly un-PC in a world where these 'crimes' have very nearly disappeared from our screens. I'm more than happy to concede that it's probably far more juvenile at heart than almost anything you'll see on actual children's television. All these things are true. But if Jeremy Clarkson has made a packet out of it then I say good for him, because this terrible programme he devised is the best thing on British TV by a country mile.

An unlikely sounding rumour on the face of it, but I really rated him as a player when we had him back in the day. I must admit however he's never gone quite as far in the Premier League as I felt he perhaps could/should have done given his all natural attributes. A cursory glance this thread is proof enough of just how extremely unpopular a return here would be amongst the fanbase, and recalling the manner of his leaving I can fully understand that reaction. But could a big brute of a Premier League striker that Kenwyne Jones still is do a (short term) job for us at this level ? Kenwyne Jones and Rickie Lambert together could rip this division a new one if you ask me.

Peter Crouch's penalty kick when we played (and beat) PFC at St Marys 5 or 6 years ago in the FA Cup, the tension was unbearable and the pen was in front of me at the Chapel end too. Fan bloody tastic. That last 10 minutes of yet another 'great escape' match when Nigel Pearson's team had to win our final game of the season against Sheffield Utd to stay up. James Beattie was mysteriously 'injured' and the atmosphere was electric as you'd expect, it didn't help much when Stern John (bless his cotton socks) got sent off for removing his shirt just after scoring ! What a brilliant end to a terrible season. There are plenty of bad ones too - but for some reason I prefer not to remember them.

I'm forced to agree. Kelvin has been a fine servant of this club and his efforts will be remembered with much respect by this fan, not just as a player but as a man also. But he had his big chance in the prime of his career back with Sunderland in 2005 and (sadly) he wasn't a success at that level. Now he was playing in a struggling team behind defenders that didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either, but it seems to me we'd need to find a outstanding keeper if we get promoted, not just stick with a good one. As for Bart in the Premier League ..... too scary a prospect for me.

No he really didn't, and ever since Kelvin Davis first signed for this club way back in 2006 every manager we've had (that's quite a few) has come to the same conclusion - Davis is the better keeper. I can't see that changing anytime soon frankly.

Wrong side of the bed dearie ?

NA has just hinted in his post match interview on Solent that both Holmes and Forte will soon be loaned out.

Some really insightful contributions on here today that make my poor efforts seem very inadequate. This forum at its best perhaps. If you're reading this Duncan I'm sure your take on the ownership question would be much appreciated.

I disagree. It is absolutely necessary (and hence justifiable) for the state to incarcerate dangerous criminals in order to deter others, punish them, and (mostly importantly) to protect society from their violence - the obvious 'public safety' imperative of that overriding the offenders right to liberty. This principle has been an intrinsic part of the English common law tradition since time immemorial. Once imprisoned and serving a long or 'whole life' sentence however, I see no imperative need for the state to then take the offenders life as well, we might call this guiding principle 'the minimum use of force'. Yes there certainly is a long historical precedent for the use of capitol punishment, but lots of stuff went on in the past that I would hope no right thinking person would now consider to be acceptable. As ever this is my individual opinion and I'm well aware that others will vehemently disagree.

I claim no inside knowledge but given the enormous ongoing costs of maintaining premiership status in the modern game, you'd think that the plan is/was to get us promoted and then within a year (or two) sell SFC to the highest bidder. That makes some kind of business sense I suppose. In any case I just can't see ML's family having sufficiently deep pockets, or the will-power for that matter, to be plowing large sums of money into the club indefinitely given that the record of comparable clubs to SFC currently in the premier league shows most of them hemorrhaging substantial amounts of cash every year. As has been said many times before, football as a longterm business proposition makes little or no sense. It's all very well having a grand hobby, and honoring your late fathers dream shows admirable ambition from his children, but there are limits surely ......

I don't think I was so unforgivably arrogant as to claim any such thing, indeed I would no more say that one persons morals are 'better' than another's than I would claim one mans religion is provably 'better' than somebody else's. There were good reasons why capitol punishment was abolished in this country and many of them have already been aired in this thread. You started this thread (I presume) because you wanted to debate the matter, if so it was naive to believe that everyone would agree with you. Ultimately where you stand on this issue surely boils down to a matter of personal opinion, or to put it more succinctly, a matter of individual conscience. My conscience, for what it's worth, tells me that judicial killing is wrong. Others of course hold a different view - 'twas ever thus.

It's not uncommon for a Chairman to maintain outside interests while still running a football club, indeed I've known some business's to actually run better when the boss is away. The interesting news that 'Don' Cortese is apparently so relied upon by the Liebherr family is potentially very good news for SFC. I myself still think that SFC will be sold sometime in the not too distant future however.

I'm in all favour of politicians saying what they mean, and meaning what they say. There's far too much of what you might call a 'you can't say that' attitude about in politics and our broadcast media and there's no good in it. If you don't like what a politician has too say then instead of calling for them to be silenced in some sinister Stalinist manner, why not just try not voting for them instead ? I say the pot needs stirring every now and then, or do we actually want a political class dominated by bland careerist nonentities so afraid of saying anything controversial that it becomes impossible to know what they really stand for ? Presuming they stand for something in the first place that is. We're pretty far down that dismal road already if you ask me.

We pay for what is indeed a 'horrifically expensive' prison system because by depriving a incarcerated criminal of his/her ability to earn a living in the normal manner, it then becomes incumbent upon the state to maintain (and guard) them. Of course prisoners can (and sometimes do) perform profitable work while serving their sentences, but this itself can prove to be problematic for a host of reasons I'm sure we can all readily appreciate. But at its heart this is more a moral question than a strictly practical one. All right thinking people are appalled by horrible crimes such as rape or murder (especially when the victims are innocent children) and my blood boils just like yours when this happens, but I refuse to submit to that very natural human emotion by becoming a supporter of (judicial) killing myself. If killing is wrong - then it's wrong isn't it? I'm well aware that this view is a minority one, but I would ask the majority to please accept that those who oppose capital punishment do so because of a deeply held moral conviction, rather than some otherwise inexplicable wish to see murderers 'get away with' their repulsive crimes.

Well said Frank. I too am utterly opposed to the death penalty under any circumstances, the arguments in favour (such as they are) seem based more on raw emotion rather than any civilized value I recognise - or could condone. The state has no right to take the lives of its own citizens except when it's absolutely necessary to do so in order to protect the innocent. I would argue that even the most depraved of criminals, such as Robert Black the utterly vile child rapist/murderer (to take an extreme example) can be adequately dealt with via a true 'whole life' sentence. Would I regret Black's death had he been killed trying to escape justice ? Not in the slightest. Would hanging him now make this a more just, safer society ? I really don't think so. The awful truth is that nothing you can do to the likes of Robert Black and his ilk can bring back the innocent and make things 'right' again. That's the real tragedy of murder isn't it ? Whatever the justice system subsequently does is just too little, and far too late.

So we've established you don't much like my 5 or 6 out of 10 mark so I take it you rate AL's contribution as in the 1-to-4 range then. Go onto the post match threads in question and see how many others were marking Adam quite that low, and here's a clue for you - it's a low number. But what the Hay, you're entitled to your view, however utterly wrong it is.

Ah so you were there - beer googles then ?

Needless to say I don't accept your depiction of Adam's performance in that game - were you even there ? It remains my view that placing the blame for another a well below average team performance on the shoulders of one player is probably not all that productive an excercise. As for my view of Guly do Prado's performance that day - well now that really was a 3 or 4 out of 10 - but there again he too was not solely responsible for that defeat. Look closer .

I was there and if I'd marked him for that game it would have been a 5.5 or 6 - ie average or a little above. If you reckon that was a poor 3 or 4 out of 10 performance then I can only say that I disagree.