Tamesaint

Very true .... but if you really want weird: Calling Guided Missile to the thread.

Seven MPs now defying the whip. . Feels like a bit of momentum building up. I wonder who will be the first Cabinet minister to break ranks.

Exactly. Current rate. So as the rest of the world gradually frees itself from this horrible virus , Sweden is still going to suffer.

All I can smell from you is pony droppings. Sweden hasn't had a lockdown and its current death per capita rate is higher than anywhere in the world.

Why Dominic Cummings must go 23 May 2020, 3:32pm Why Dominic Cummings must go Photo by Stefan Rousseau - WPA Pool/Getty Images Text settings CommentsShare Most aspects of this present emergency are complex and resist easy solutions. Only a handful are elementary but one of these, and quite obviously so, is the Dominic Cummings affair. He must go and he must go now. There is no alternative, no other way out, no means by which this ship can be saved. The only question is the number of casualties Cummings will take with him. Judged by the cabinet’s performance on social media this weekend, the answer to that question is also simple: all of them. It cannot be stressed too often that the government’s authority during this crisis is moral much more than it is legal. The lockdown measures were presented as a great national collective endeavour and they were accepted by the public on those terms too. Now it seems they were optional so long as, that is, you have the correct connections. Advisors are, by definition, disposable. When they become the story, you cut them loose. That is the rule and it exists for a very good reason. Otherwise, attention soon shifts from the advisor to their masters. Right now, the government appears to believe Cummings is indispensable and, consequently, more important than the coherence and credibility of the government’s own messaging. That is quite a conclusion to reach and one unlikely to be shared by the general public. This government now suffers from a credibility gap and the problem with such things is that, once opened and apparent, these gaps never close. The longer Cummings remains in post, the surer it is that the government will become, at best, a laughing stock. It doesn’t even matter if what he did was appropriate or sensible or a reasonable means by which an awkward or complicated situation might best be managed. All that could be true and it wouldn’t change a thing. Perception is sometimes more important and here the perception is that there is one set of rules for government insiders and another, quite different, set of rules for everyone else. That is not just the perception, either, for it appears to be the reality too and will remain so, and be understood as such, for as long as Dominic Cummings remains in post. You may sympathise with his predicament – an unwell wife, a small child – all you like and it doesn’t change a thing. Cabinet minister, mysteriously, are setting fire to their own credibility and authority in defending Cummings. There are millions of people across the country who have made considerable sacrifices, borne significant hardship, during this lockdown. They have done so for the greater good, recognising that they must do their little bit as part of a much greater endeavour. Weddings have been postponed; funerals have been left unattended; families have been separated. Little of this experience has been easy and much of it has been hard. It is baffling that the government appears unable to see the damage this story will do to its already rocky reputation. Cummings’s judgement is one thing – and in the grander scheme of things, neither here nor there – but the longer this story rumbles on so the surer it is that attention will switch to the man who hired him. The point of a human shield is that you must be prepared to lose them if that proves necessary and this is something even Boris Johnson must be capable of grasping. It is his judgement that is now the issue. The suspicion remains that somewhere, deep in their hearts, the cabinet’s collective reaction to this scandal – for such it is – is predicated on a still darker appreciation of an unwelcome political reality. Namely that the Prime Minister, whatever his other talents, is not actually up to the job of running the country in a moment such as this. I suspect they know this too and this leads them to a situation in which they decline to concede anything for fear that a single concession might topple the entire rickety edifice. Perhaps I am mistaken about that but I can see no other logical explanation for the manner in which the government has reacted to this story. There is an old rule in crisis management stating that you should always do quickly what you will be forced to do eventually anyway. That means sacking Cummings now and it is astonishing that this appears beyond Downing Street. You cannot – and again, this is elementary – run this crisis on a 'do as I say, not as I do' basis. And yet that is what the country is now expected to swallow. It is madness and a blunder of career-defining, perhaps even career-ruining, proportions. A joke, then, albeit not an especially amusing one. Surely someone in Downing Street can appreciate this? This is a shipwreck and all the smart people who say this will blow over or fail to 'cut through' with the public are, I think, sorely mistaken. This is not a difficult story to understand, which is why it is so very powerful. Again, and above all, this is a moral matter not a legal one and, by virtue of that, a much bigger and more profound affair. The Prime Minister has a simple choice: cut Dominic Cummings loose or be dragged down with him. This ought to be a pretty easy decision. Hmmm

So it is very unlikely that he used public transport. Why did you bring it up? Don't you understand instructions for morons?

What on earth do you mean? Are you implying that when the Government was stating that you shouldn't travel they only meant that you shouldn't travel by public transport?

Hope so. My plane once got diverted to Dublin and I drank some excellent Guinness. Am I eligible?

You have got to stop this comedy gold Wes. You were pretty funny yesterday about Boris and PMQs but this is really funny. ... and dont get grumpy like you did yesterday when everybody laughed at you.

Exactly. Presumably you find the comment "mere advisor" as funny as I do.

It happened in March. It has only been reported now. I would have thought that such a bright spark as you with such a highly developed sense of constant questioning would now be wondering why this story has been hidden up to now.

So Cummins is a " mere advisor." You really are comedy gold.

The story about Ferguson came out a couple of weeks ago on the same day as the UK became the European leader for covid deaths. Guess which story made the front pages the next day. I wonder if another story will break in the next couple of days to take the heat off Cummings.

Both Kinnock and Cummings acted wrongly. Kinnock is a backbencher MP elected democratically. The unelected Cummings, however, is this Government's chief advisor. He would have had a huge say in the formulation of this policy. Along with such exalted power comes responsibility. Cummings flouted this responsibility and if he was honourable would resign.

I have a lot of sympathy for your view but if the stories about Cummings are true... if you live by the sword you should be prepared to die by the sword. Funny how the story about Cummings surfaced in the Mirror and Guardian - which in pre Covid days were being excluded from Government briefings.

So not only can't you see the difference between the Government's chief advisor and a footballer but you cannot see the difference between him and an MP. Tell me. From what post should Kinnock be sacked? Do his constituents have a say?

He could resign from his official post but could still offer "advice" to Johnson whether solicited or not. I guess that he would no longer receive payment from the public purse for his advice and wouldn't sit on official committes like Sage but he doesn't appear short of a bob or two and could probably survive without official pay. Whether he resigns or not the whole affair adds a bit more to the odour of hypocrisy and incompetence that is beginning to hang round this government.

… and it won't be next time if Labour have a leader who looks like a Prime Minister.

My issue is that the Conservative Party is no longer my political home. I am sure that you would label me as a non Tory but the truth is that I am a natural Conservative and have voted for the Tories more often than for any other party. My issue is that as I hate Brexit, dislike a lying, cheating buffoon of a leader and want a competent Government that is more concerned with substance rather than appearance I am appalled by the current Conservative party. The "swamp has been drained" of pink Conservatives like me. I have never voted Labour in my life. I despaired of the choice of leader given to the country at the last election but at least in Starmer I see a "grown up" for whom I could one day vote. For you to state that Johnson had the better of PMQ's on Wednesday makes you look ridiculously partisan. If you want me to be objective, I would agree that Johnson has improved but he was now similar to a boxer battered and bruised who had been well defeated on points rather than one being beaten in an early round by a knock out blow.

I don' t think that you know the meaning of the word objective. You are repeatedly being told by other posters that you are one of the, if not the most partisan poster on this forum. I don't disagree with them. Are there any more manifesto pledges that Johnson will renege upon once Starmer gets going on him?

What a load of codswallop which even by your standards Wes beggars belief. Johnson did so well that just over 24 hours later he made a major U turn on the policy that he had defended against Starmer. He has been made to look a complete Charlie. If that is a successful PMQs you have a pretty low threshold.

Yes - emotional intelligence is definitely lacking there. I also wonder whether she might be a little bit thick. In the Brexit debate interviewers would make absolute mincemeat out of her which they couldn't do with other Brexit advocates.

BBC News - NHS fees to be scrapped for overseas health staff and care workers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52761052 So Starmer chalks up his first success in getting the Government to change tack. I don't think that it will be the only one against this Government. It does beggar belief that even a Government with an 80 seat majority could contemplate this sort of measure. Don't they know what the country does every Thursday at 8 pm??

Cheese wire would sort CB Fry out wouldn't it ? Why not put him on ignore?

I think Weston has decided to kill this thread by posting semantic boll ocks.