S-Clarke

Exactly, it's not down to individuals per say, it's the style. We don't have a viable alternative way of playing if Downes is unavailable and there should be some squad flexibility to allow us to cope with that. But we never do, we just blindly do the same thing but with players who aren't suited. Granted, I think we have left our midfield massively short this year which hasn't helped - but it's the 'play this way no matter approach' that's harmed us.

So, we just airbrush those games because they add to the tally? There's no way we should be losing 5-0 twice in a season, mixed in with a 4-1 and 4-4 as well. It's not like we've isolated our crappy goals against to a few games, we gave up 3 at Bristol, 3 against Huddersfield at home, 1 to frigging Rotherham. No matter how you dress it up we should not be conceding over 61 goals. I hear a lot about the morale and 'scar tissue', but why didn't Leeds and Leicester face the same turmoil? What was so different with them? They were also relegated with us after having horrendous seasons, they both had equal turmoil in the summer with players leaving left right and centre. They both changed their managers and backroom staff. If we cannot seemingly cope with 'scar tissue', then why can they?

I think it was Liverpool who tried to change him into a CM, but I feel like you - it never seemed to click, he never looked right in there. I don't think AOC is what we need, he'd be a headline signing for sure, but Aaron Ramsey was a headline signing for Cardiff and his fitness has meant he never plays for them. He'd be another massively expensive gamble that I don't think we can afford in our second season down (if we stay down here). We were bitten by Stewart last summer, let's not do it again.

I think there have been some very reasoned posts in this thread. I had my doubts when he was appointed, he didn't feel the right fit, but you had to get behind him which 99% of us did at that point. The start we had didn't help the nerves, but the recovery and the unbeaten run steadied the ship and brought a lot of us some hope, but the failings at the start of the season were still nagging in the back of most of our minds. Sadly all of those nagging doubts have come rushing back since February, we went 26 games without losing and have now lost 7 in the last 15 which is absolutley bloody horrific and has killed our season. The concerns the fans have are valid in my opinion, a genuine promotion candidate cannot concede in excess of 60 goals - it just doesn't compute. Those goals have come across the entire season, we started it with a 5-0 thrashing and have ended it with another - so in my opinion the fans have got genuine reason to ask wtf is going on. As a team with THB, KWP, Bednarek, Downes etc in the defensive third....we should not be conceding over 60 goals. I know the counter argument some like to play is that these players are shit, they conceded goals whenever they are etc - but this is a level down, they are internationals of varying levels and they are good enough to not be letting in the amount of goals they are. The fundamental issue is our approach in my opinion, no matter how much Martin denies it. 1) - We are wide open, we attack and we push high and leave our CB's playing as midfielders, full backs as attackers etc. When a team press us well and they transition well we are exploited, the gaps are there for all to see. It's been a clear target that oppositions have hit us with - press us, transition with pace and we're done for. It's like groundhog day. 2) - We're too interested with just keeping the ball for keeping the ball sake and passively trying to win the ball back ourselves to transition. This has lead to us standing off so much in the hope we can nick it without fouling, but teams are quick to that and the top sides like Leicester, Ipswich, Hull etc have players who can do a quick 1 - 2 and dance around our passive approach. We fanny around with it in areas of danger and we are pressured to within an inch our life now, it's not about being brave it's being bloody stupid. There's nothing wrong with possession football as an approach, but you cannot build an entire philosophy just on that. The basis of football is keeping the ball, but a philosophy needs to evolve beyond that - and that just hasn't happened here.

Absolutley, that's the main thing - to come up with substantially more of the ball and to lose 5 goals is the clearest illustration of a fundamental flaw in everything about this 'philosophy'. It ain't working. I know he came out yesterday and said it's not about tactics, or the way he setup the team, it's about players willing to run etc etc etc. No, it's about the way they're being told to play and how awfully open and exposed we leave ourselves.

That's the thing though trousers, we have flirted - never anymore than that, we get to within a point or even into 2nd for a game or two and then we're back to 10 points adrift before you can blink. Nothing but on the edges sadly, and that's not been good enough.

Hmm, maybe this was all on Wilcox then. I don't believe you can go into a club as a new regime and demand a specific style of play from the get go, you have to work with what you've got and then evolve. This nonsense about teams becoming a possession based 'over night' is propaganda. That sort of talk rings alarm bells for me.

I don't think it's just me, but I hoped that we wouldn't have conceded over 60 goals with 2 games to go. I hoped and thought we'd be properly involved in the auto race, but if we're honest we've never been anything more than on the periphery of it for the entire season. Sure, the top teams have set the pace...but we just haven't been able to get near them consistently and that will always have me feeling pretty underwhelmed.

My thoughts on Brooks is that our play doesn't suit him. He's a quick tempo, 1 touch type player - looking to get and give, get and move etc. Our style is more of a get, keep, get, keep and I think it makes him look more languid than he actually is. If we played quicker and moved it quicker in tight spaces you'd see the best of him. Rothwell is a winger, or an Armstrong type player - not a CM, everything I've seen of him suggests that. Keep him as far up the field and away from the central area's as possible. He's crap there.

That's the number one thing we look for in any potential new signing, so this is a goer.

It might make him slightly more gettable in the summer I guess, but either way we need 2x CDM's imo. Either him and 1 other, or 2 new.

I think Cooper was still in charge of Forest at that point, so it was always a bit of a long shot. The people in control at that point were desperate for Ralph to go so they could make their own mark (Rasmus), and our start gave him that opportunity. To this day I still believe we'd have stayed up had we kept Ralph in place, I know some don't agree with that - but the decision to get rid of him couldn't have gone any worse. I have seen some fans calling for Cooper if we fail to go up this year, but that couldn't be more unrealistic. Once WHU have stopped flirting with unrealistic options themselves, like they always do, he'll end up there.

Start of this season? Pretty ambitious to think he'd join a Championship club! He'd be a good shout for a newly promoted side next year.

Big game for Leeds on Friday, if they beat QPR then Ipswich will have a ton of pressure on them with 2 games in hand. It's not quite the same chasing when you have games in hand, I found it a massive disadvantage. The two games in hand for Ipswich at that point will be away at Cov and away at Hull. If I were an Ipswich fan I'd be hoping for a QPR shock on Friday, otherwise they likely go into the final game behind or even out of the equation.

I seem to remember them being quite passive for periods of that game, which played into our hands a bit. We did get a way with a couple of moments, but I don't remember ever being under the cosh.

They had a couple of mega chances, I remember Stephens clearing at least one of theirs from under the bar. It looks like a total anomonly though, I think we were somewhat fortunate that WBA were pretty poor on the night and we just controlled it. WBA didn't have the pace or power to really harm us on the break, they're very much a workman like side in my eyes. The teams who inflict the most damage are the ones who press us aggressively, expose the gaps between our lines on transition, the quick/pacey players. Mavadidi, Fatawu had a field day last night. Leeds will have a field day. Huddersfield with Sorba Thomas had a field day against us. Hull with Philogene and Carvaliho had a field day. Hutchinson and Chaplin for Ipswich similar, after about an hour.

He's only on loan from Benfica to be fair, a buy clause of £25m ish - which they won't be able to activate due to their embargo.

That's the guy I saw mentioned on Twitter, currently on loan from Bayer Leverkussen. We're looking at another loan from Bayer.

I think we have a good enough team to not have let in over 60 goals. A team at this level with players such as THB, Bednarek, KWP, Downes should not be conceding over 60 goals in this league, not even close. If we didn't concede as many goals, and maybe scored 10 or so less, we'd be right up there - maybe even needing a win against Stoke to confirm promotion. We were good enough to be there and that's why this season will always leave a horrible sense of 'what could have been' behind. I'll never look back on it with any fond memories, it's a wasted opportunity.

We're looking at a GK from Brondby apparently, no idea if he's any good.

I didn't actually realise we ended up with 68% possession last night, way to go everyone connected with the club. We won! In all seriousness I will always remember something Ralph used to say ''Possession means very little, we often do better when we have less of the ball''. Never a truer word said. If you don't have the quality to do anything with the possession then you're wasting everyone's time and money.

Livramento was going backwards? The guy couldn't play for us for 18 months, hard to put that on what we did to him. Before his injury he was one of our first names every week. He's gone on to prove himself at Newcastle. I don't think we're a graveyard in any way, last season in the PL we put our future on the line by playing a load of kids and starting the pro careers of Lavia, Tino, Edozie, Larios, this season we've done the same with Charles, SAA, Dibling etc. As a club we got the strategy wrong and doubled down on it, in some ways I feel a bit sorry for the young lads we signed, but I don't think you can say we're a graveyard for them, we play so many young players - we just need to get the structure right around them and they'll fly imo.

It's a strange situation, we obviously need an eye on the playoffs - but we also need to keep an eye on next season and maybe providing an opportunity to SAA or Dibling to be involved at some stage is an idea. SAA started in the home game against QPR way back in September after having a storming start to his pro career with us, so I don't see why he's been pretty much consigned to the bin since. I think we'll be relying on these sorts a lot more next season, so the more game time we can give them now the better.

I agree, I feel more secure with two CM's in a pivot like that. The back 4 are less exposed and it's more balanced. You can then let the AMC's do what the AMC's do and drive forward, rather than worry about what's behind them. I'm not sure we'll have that exact team though, I think we'll be getting a new CB as I can't see Bednarek sticking around, last year of his contract so the club will need to return some investment on him. The lack of width on the right of the midfield worries me though, you're asking a lot of Bree (who is very, very limited) to provide the attacking outlet that Fraser will provide from the left. (I'm not counting on Armstrong, as I believe the club will be forced to sell given his contract situation) So...I think when the dust settles we'll end up needing a new GK, new CB, new FB x2, New CM, New AMC (if Charly stays, no new AMC). New Wide Right player, as in a proper purchased replacement for Tella. New ST. I don't think we can count on Stewart being a first choice player for us, we're going to need to plan without Armstrong, Adams and Mara so we need a hell of a lot up top. I hope we see more of SAA and Edozie next season, but we will need a hell of a lot of incomings to remain competitive to any decent level.

They're successful because they're funded by oil, so they can buy Haaland and De Bryune. When you have the resources they have a 'philosophy' isn't as important, they're just good enough to do things that other teams can't defend against. We are trying to do the same thing with Che Adams and Will Smallbone. Spot the problem! I always believed that for a club of our level, playing with a high press and bugging the hell out of the opposition is how we get success. All of this pass, pass, pass nonsense with the limited players we have is only going to end in lots and lots of tears and pain. Nothing wrong with passing the ball and keeping it, but that can't be all that we're about.