shurlock

#epiphany

Perhaps he's channeling his inner kenyan - you know the one who supposedly hates the British and views them as foreign invaders.

We've got our democracy back, haven't we pal.

That argument is completely overdone. But glad to see you dimly parroting it. For the sake of his reputation and career prospects, Koeman would have had every incentive to complete his contract on a high. Memories are short in football and you tend to be judged by only your most recent performance.

Nothing to do with that. It's a matter of credibility: if the UK is seen to be having its cake and eating it, it may give other countries ideas of leaving. The EU can't be seen as a soft touch.

You misunderstand the situation. Nobody has claimed that people should think or want the same things or agree on the means to achieve them. But for democracy to work, it needs to operate within a framework of reason and evidence: instead, as the FT points out (via Whelk), we’ve witnessed a celebration of ignorance, egged on by the former Secretary of State for Education of all people. When blatant untruths are exposed yet continue to be shamelessly paraded, people will get frustrated. It has nothing to with differences in opinion. Brexiters have been fantastically skillful at playing the victim card – protesting how their ‘values’ aren’t being respected while dismissing others as dripping luvvies when, in fact, they’re trying to shut down a debate because, at root, they struggle to hold an argument. The lady doth protest too much.

Why would it? The argument isn't that the US is going to abandon the UK; the argument that the UK would a much more valuable ally to the US if it was within the EU. Being the US' interlocutor in the EU -whether it is on the free trade deal between the US and EU or making sure the EU does not buckle with Russia- gives the UK much more influence and leverage. That's now moot.

Lets see where that goes - not very far I suspect. Of course, harmonisation can mean plenty of things and provide substantial scope for flexibility. FWIW UK public spending on pensions is one of the lowest in the developed world, only behind Mexico and Chile. http://www.cityam.com/229957/the-uk-has-one-of-the-lowest-pensions-in-developed-world-according-to-the-oecd

Ken Clarke speaking alot of sense as usual.

#moneyball

You make a serious point, though, that as state and corporate pension plans are scaled back, people (principally the young assuming they're even able to save given student debt and other living costs) are increasingly forced to make investment decisions on their own and roll the dice on stock markets.

My SIPP went up £450 today Then again it's partly geared to things going tits up and took a hit when everyone was assuming a remain win.

Who said it would less than 24hrs in?

Cheers - the UN only gives data for 15-19 and 20-24, so it requires a bit of massaging. By contrast, 65+ year olds are 11.8m. That suggests the number of 'remain' 18-24 year olds ~4.4 million wouldn't have matched the number of 'out' 65+ year olds ~7.1 milllon irrespectve of turnout. Older voters won it by sheer numbers.

If by factual, you mean cherrypicked, disingenuous nonsense, then spot on.

What was the 18-24 population in 2014?

Bearing in mind you pulled the quote from that most respectable of sources, the David Icke facebook page, you forgot to mention that the predicted conspiracy of lizard Illuminati was also averted. Clown

Nor as Daniel Hannan is furiously reminding the beeb are there any guarantees that net migration will come down.

Stoke has been a canary in a coalmine for years.

How many people who voted out treated the referendum as a protest vote -as much against Westminster as the EU?

I hope he's taught you some french cuisine - bet you can make a mean croque-monsieur Jamie.

Denial? So the hard right that trades politically on fears of immigration is also in denial when it puts the figure at 200,000-400,000 -some 2.1 million to 2.3 million short of your estimate. But hey our very own Peter Mayle has eyes on the ground

2.5m illegal immigrants is ~10x higher than even the most extreme estimates. But hey- I can see it with my eyes #gamesetmatch

No you're wrong -I'd be inclined to attribute to old age but it is consistent with some of your other unsavoury views. I am a French citizen and have plenty of exposure to and contact with what's happening on the ground.