shurlock

Absolutely. There are limits to how far we can take players (Adam is a good example), though I don't think it would have done the likes of theo any harm to have stuck around another season or two. That would have taken him to 18, 19 - that's ridiculously young? I don't think you learn more by warming the bench or hoping the magic of training with world-class players will rub off on you than by playing competitive matches. And that's what will happen to Oxo. Cleverley was playing championship football with Leicester and Watford when he was 20; the same is true of much of the England U-21s.

I'm with you to a point -I'm not saying they're a bad club; but when I think of a youth policy, I think of rough diamonds, players nurtured from the cradle like Wilshere not players who had already cut it and would have probably thrived at most clubs. It didn't do Bale any harm going to Spurs, for instance.

Spearing, Risse, Fowler, Owen, McManaman etc. And we're talking about developing players from scratch - not buying them at huge prices or a certain level of ability as Arsenal have done. Whatever Fabregas, Nasri, Henry, Viera have achieved cannot be attributed to Arsenal alone. Nasri, Henry, Vierra, Ramsey and Van Persie had already played internationally before they fully broke into the Arsenal side. Arsenal have a good record; but their recent record isn't as good, coinciding with their lack of trophies and success.

Exactly- its not just whether the player would have improved; but whether he would have improved more at another club. Arsenal's reputation for developing youngsters is overrated. It used to be good; but has declined in recent years as they have suffered from trophy drought. Not as bad as Chelsea; but not as good as Man U and the likes of Liverpool, Villa, Everton etc.

The margin for error is miniscule in the prem - you make a mistake, you get roasted. NA banged on about creating an environment in which young players could take risks and not worry about failing. That's exactly what players like Oxo need. Fergy has done a pretty good job at shielding young players and sticking by them but there are limits to what you can do in the premiership/Big 4 fishbowl. No coincidence that most who have actually made it at man u have also done a stint in the championship or at a less high profile club.

Exactly - he got what he wanted.

A couple of little touches, albeit by dropping deep into his own half. Tried to take Evra on and soundly lost. Hit a nice cross-field ball tho. Says alot that he's get thrown on a game in which they have a rat's ar $e of winning and now won't feature again until the next time the outcome's meaningless. Some education, kid; some mentor, wenger.

Crosby also had to come on at half time and restrain several players who were the surrounding the officials. A f**king diabolical decision.

Agree- looked v.good against Leeds, Barnsley and Ipswich, less good against Millwall and Leicester. Nothing to do with the quality of opposition either: Gradel is one of the most dangerous wingers in the division.

Its not just that the Poznan is a copy, its a joke to begin with.

Thought Harding had a v.good game as well. Fox came on and delivered some lovely balls into the box but, as you say, they were on the ropes. It would be odd if Harding lost his place on that performance.

Agree - thought he was very good against Leeds, Barnsley and Ipswich. Guly has tremendous work-rate, chasing players but often comes inside to do so which does leave the right-hand side open if the opposition plays two blocks of four. At the beginning of the season, I thought our left-hand side of Harding/Dickson was stronger than our right-hand side of Richardson/Butterfield; but NA thought it appropriate to bring in Fox. As such, there's no reason why right back couldn't be strengthened; but its not a priority IMO, especially if Cork can be used as an emergency (though I wouldn't want it to become a habit).

Cannot wait- f**king cream crackered- been on the road all day. But this gets the adranelin pumping. Bring it on.

Couldn't believe some of the offside decisions made by the lino on our side of the pitch.

Don't disagree with what you say about the CBs - we need to strengthen and, with the aborted Gorkss and Fontaine signings, we've shown we're committed to strengthening there. My point is that its far too easy to paint the situation in black and white, too convenient to pin our defensive frailties on Seaborne alone when, in fact, Jose, our no.1 CB, has sometimes contributed to problems.

Don't think we were as bad in the first half as some people make out. A dodgy first 20 mins aside, thought we got the ball down well (if at times in front of them) -and the goal was just deserts. Also don't think Harding had a bad game, with most of the threat coming down Richardson's side. Connolly and Lambert didn't quite click today. Lambert had his poorest game for a while (though his overall form this season has been very good and I've been a doubter). ALso felt for the first time in ages that we missed Barney's directness and aggression in the final third. It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, we bring because there's an argument for both bringing someone pacey and mobile and someone direct and powerful. Shame Barney's been injured and unable to show whether he can cut the mustard at this level. Having seen the quality of NPC defences this season, I bet he can. People will talk about the centre backs but Seaborne didn't have a bad game by any stretch of the imagination (Fonte was probably at fault for the first, letting the cross come in which took a wicked deflection and flopped between two defenders into Vassell's path). We seemed much more vulnerable at setpieces and corners than to attacks in open playwhich possibly raises questions about the whole team's ability to defend in the air rather than the CBs per se. Still, we need to bring somebody in before the deadline. Schneiderlin looked very composed in the second half, making you wonder if there's any way to accomodate Cork, Hammond and Schneiderlin, though the answer probably isn't by starting Cork at RB as we did for the 2nd half. All the nonsense after Millwall about the players not being fit enough was also to bed. We really did play till the very final whistle, making them chase shadows and we still looked like we had plenty in the tank - how on earth Konchesky has played for England is just mind-boggling. MOTM was Lallana - thought he had a quietish 1st half and his relative lack of pace was evident at times (Fernandes closed him down well) but he absolutely exploded in the second. Showed real strength that you don't typically associate with him. De Ridder looks like a chained animal itching to be unleashed - went on a great run with his first touch. Will start Tuesday and hopefully gets the nod for Forest which seems a no-brainer as its a home game. If Leicester is the benchmark of what the NPC has to offer, we have nothing to be worried about. Perhaps today's result will kickstart their season but like all Sven's teams they flatter to deceive. They'll have their afternoons where they smash teams; but I can see them hitting many more bumps and dont think they'll be able to tough out a whole season. By contrast, today settled the fallacy that our season has been built on the sand of post-promotion momentum. We have to bounce back after the international break (fortunately the fixture list couldn't be any kinder with two home fixtures). But I'm confident we will. With the exception of MK Dons (A) and Colchester(H) last season (NA's first games), we've never followed a defeat with anything less than a win in the league. This team doesn't like losing. Tonight, despite the result, I'm much more of a believer that we are the real deal.

Embarrassing enough that City does the Poznan, watching these bulbs do it took things to another level.

Bumping this one - first time in a while but I think we missed Barny today. For all our nice play, we sometimes lack a bit of aggression and directness in the final third. Barny would have offered that in droves.

Rate him higher than Baldock and probably going for less than half the price. Got as many goals as Jay Rod in both their breakthrough seasons and yet people are quick to dismiss him as **** and pin their hopes on Jay-Rod. Last year was truly a miserable year for him at Leicester -first with the clueless Sousa, then SGE's decision to dismantle the nucleus of a good, young side -Hobbs, Fryatt etc and then helicopter in some loanee premiership mercenaries. Sven is a clown - as fantastic as his contact book is, he's got zero-eye for talent unless it comes rubber stamped from the top 4. Ultimately Waghorn was victim of a catch 22 - Sven wasn't prepared to let him go like the others as he felt he still had something to contribute; but wasn't prepared to give Waghorn a decent run in the team, preventing him from kickstarting his career as the others have done. He's obviously raw and his decision-making and awareness need to be worked on; but he isn't the worst shout in the world. Could provide some needed directness, power and tricks up top. Barny has some of these attributes but isn't as well-rounded as Waghorn. For all the Rooney analogies, Waghorn reminds me of a young Kevin Davies.

Been an awful window for transfer inflation - £5m for NPC CBs, nearly £3m for L1 strikers, £5-6m quoted for NPC players who have only a season or two of form. This will be the reference point for kinds of chancers and mediocrity from now. And to think we're reported to have only paid £1m for Fonte and £750K for Cork. Best to go abroad, this country's a graveyard.

Agree he's not a pure speedster; but he is arguably more mobile than alot of our frontline. Its precisely why I rate him - I like his versatility and his intelligence- seems perfectly suited to the kind of fluid, interchangeable football we've been playing and gives us another option in the air (where we're short should Lambert pick up an injury or suffer a dip in form).

I don't know what makes you think he isn't quick - seen him on the wing and has looked pretty lively. Can easily beat his man for pace.

Probably about the N'guessan deal.

They know they won't recoup that - they'll probably want £1.5m but reckon will take 800K.