Saint Fan CaM

Ah, simpler times Badger. When I first got interested in pro footie teams me and my group of friends were not particularly interested in inter-club rivalry - if players were great in our eyes, then that was all that mattered. All that changed when I started supporting Saints of course and particularly in my mid-teens when any Pompey louts were in town for a bit of aggro. It wasn’t really until the infamous and distressing 3-4 capitulation against Leeds at SMS that I developed a loathing of the club.

HIV? (He’s Indeterminately Vapid) 😉😂

Memory doesn’t serve me well that far back 😉 but a quick Google helps… The 1972 Leeds United team that won the FA Cup against Arsenal featured key players like Billy Bremner, Allan Clarke, Johnny Giles, Norman Hunter, Jack Charlton, Peter Lorimer, Eddie Gray, Mick Jones, and David Harvey. This legendary side, managed by Don Revie, secured the trophy by beating Arsenal 1-0 at Wembley I liked Lorimer too - renowned for the fastest/strongest shot on account that he used to toe punt shots I believe.

I wanted to be Billy Bremner when I was a kid (I’m not a ginge 😉), so naturally followed Leeds Utd not really understanding the significance of ‘home’ teams. Then as I got a little older I wanted to go to live games and Leeds was obviously too far, so started going to Saints reserve games at the Dell. I could only just afford the bus fare from Swaythling to Shirley, so kids getting in free at the Dell was the only way I could watch a pro game. I loved seeing the first team players coming back from injury and playing in the reserves to get back to match fitness. The key thing I guess in hindsight is that watching pro live football was the impetus to me switching to supporting Saints proper - as a kid, it provided a deeper connection than watching on TV. Does the Bremner idolising give my age away? 🤔

Even that doesn’t suggest they surrendered possession to us and just sat back to defend. They had more attacking intent than us in the first half.

Agree with everything you’ve said except not sure he’s useless - he got us promoted - just, although maybe that was despite his tactics!

Oh don’t get me wrong, Russ is not exempt from blame. Comparing Rangers plight to Saints is not a simple direct correlation in my opinion, but it’s clear he’s not doing a great job and will leave plenty of scars if left in place.

I think concern is that he’s inexperienced in an English football league at a time that the squad needs a massive overhaul. And the scars often mentioned are real in the sense that the style of play we’ve seen since the last Championship season has remained. Can’t underestimate the terrible state of affairs following relegation.

What? The problem with Russball was not Russball as such. It was that the players at his disposal were barely good enough to utilise his tactics to get promoted and were certainly not good enough to do it in the Prem. Nothings changed - the squad is still not good enough. Still knows that, but does he have an alternative that’s effective.

Not sure what you’re disagreeing on - Pompey did come with a game plan and executed it very well given the value of their squad versus ours - bully for them. We didn’t look like having a game plan at any time during that game. A huge derby game. So what if they were time wasting etc etc. - they got a result. We didn’t. All this bollocks about should get significantly better - when might that be? We’ve been patiently waiting for years now since SR took over. And lastly if it weren’t for the financial implications of not going up, I couldn’t give a toss about promotion. I like the Championship. What I don’t like is seeing my team look like a bunch of f-ing strangers after a full international break, playing 8 ‘old guard’ players of the 11 starting the game in the one home game that should really matter. Let’s see how we’re getting on over the next 5 games and we’ll see if there’s been an improvement.

I can’t remember exactly, but there was a point in the first half - perhaps about halfway through - when the stat was shown on the TV. True story.

Point 1: Pompey came to win - they had close to 70% possession in the first half and almost scored hitting the bar - that’s not a team sitting back. Point 2: You’re right, Saints won’t face a Pompey-type team every week…they’ll face better teams that can score goals and win games. I keep saying it - so far the value of our squad does not match the quality of the performances on display (Ipswich excluded) and particularly on the showing of the derby game (!) there’s not a hope of promotion via ANY route.

I think the issue is the supply players - those who are supposed to feed the forwards don’t have a clue what system/process/tactics/whatever they’re supposed to be utilising. They all look like strangers and it makes you wonder what the hell they get up to in training. It certainly cannot be practicing inventive ways of transitioning the ball forwards and beating defensive lines. There’s some f-ing huge scars still hanging around it seems - Still has acknowledged this himself, but so far I’m not seeing any evidence that he’s found a way to overcome the problem. For me the core of the issue is the number of ‘scarred players’ still getting first dibs on the starter team sheet.

This obviously means a lot to you as you’ve posted twice. 😉 We have two strikers that are less challenged vertically (Stewart and Downs), but they’re not starting probably for good reason(s). Thing is, it’s actually not the height of our strikers that’s a problem. If you’ve been paying attention we don’t create attacking moves very well and when we do we don’t convert chances too competently either. But the main issue is the manner in which we transition the ball forward - too slow and too predictable. Everything is re-cycled along the backline and out to full-backs trapped by an 11 man press. In short we’re too damned easy to defend against. Sort this out - get the ball forward quicker and more often to our strikers, get our forwards playing closer together and I’m sure we’ll see more goals and more games won.

Goals win games sure, but I stand by the assertion that despite those goals the football was still turgid and that’s with an arguably slightly better squad. Our patterns of play are bloody boring and generally unimpressive. How many shots on goal? How many times did we really test a 2nd choice keeper? It’s bleak.

I can’t help but feel somewhat pessimistic about where things will end up this season and the reason is that we’re still playing the same turgid football as we’ve done for 3-4 seasons now irrespective of manager. Yes there are new players to pin our hopes on, but will they really make a difference when they’re not part of the starting 11 and players that have been very mediocre in the past get picked to start? We’ll not be in the relegation zone obviously, but the playoffs look way off right now.

They’re one point behind us and the last game I saw they can pass the ball forward and score goals. We don’t against even supposedly ‘worse’ teams. There are some on here that are going to have a few nasty shocks this season - we’re not all that.

Didn’t say they were a top team - but ignoring that they played better than us (they even contained us sufficiently in the 2nd half) and remain above us in table, is closing your eyes to the mediocrity that has pervaded the club for many seasons now.

I’d get as many of the new signings in as possible plus Robinson, with Downes, Manning and Fraser on the bench. I’d also consider starting Stewart. Training this week needs to concentrate on getting that team playing proper dynamic, forward thinking football. Hull are looking good value at the moment - it’s going to be another tough day - play like today and I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose to be honest.

That’s not entirely accurate. They had circa 70% possession at one point passing it around like they owned the place. OK, our press was almost non-existent, but they had a decent game plan, had decent chances and even hit the bar with dear old Baz beaten. We were strangers.

Spot bollock on.👌

This ^^^ absolutely!!! None of the back four are capable of feeding the midfield and Downes is the perennial re-cycle king…has nothing in his game that enables him to turn and play forward. Charles is only just better, but there’s not much in it so the two of them = an ineffective midfield. Azaz, Fraser, Archer and Fellowes are often so far apart they’re playing solo.

That was very, very poor - from the team yes, but also Still - he was out-classed by his oppo manager until he made subs. He’s said it was like the players were still playing like last season - well don’t play a majority of the players that played so fucking badly and leave our most creative player (Robinson) on the fucking bench for 70 + minutes!!! Starters today… Baz - the worst keeper in our last Championship season. Defence - Stephens, THB, Manning - substandard. Midfield - Downes, Charles, Fraser. Striker - Archer (can’t work alone). That’s 8 of 11 players that we know are not going to work well as a team. Charles is better, however he doesn’t do well with Downes. Fraser and Manning don't work that well together. Mads was OK but to be honest no better than Bree. Azaz and Fellowes didn’t get to see enough of the ball, but that didn’t matter because those feeding them were in slow motion mode and lost the ball too many times. In the first half we seemed to play like a team with 5 at the back rather than the 4. Too slow in transition and so many times the ball was recycled across the back and played forward along a very narrow corridor along the wings. Absolutely played into their hands with their high press. The only way out was to hoof it to the two smallest players on the pitch. I really thought my prediction of a 15th position in the table would not come true with the new signings Spors made, but based on the starting team selection today I’m not so sure. Promotion is a pipe dream right now.

We look like a team of strangers. Poor. And what’s the point of a back 4 if you by-pass a bolstered midfield? Not impressed to be honest and hoping for much better in the 2nd half.