Saint Fan CaM

Agreed again. Like others I was sceptical he was the man and there’s clearly a long way to demonstrate he’s the right fit, but so far he’s coming across very well and I like the way the club are once again giving us a small insight into life at Staplewood. The first big test for the Board is replacing our best leaving players with as good or better rather than diluting the quality even further…that’s going to be as key to Martins success as his managerial ability.

I don’t disagree that your scenario might happen, but history has a habit of repeating itself.

Ah, one of those injuries that mean you MUST attend a contract signing??? 😜

Got to agree. Kid has lots of potential, but there’s a reason the best keepers in the top two tiers of Brit football are mostly not youngsters. We (and he) deserve better from the club.

Long way to go yet and I suspect Saints will be left waiting until the last minute to offload some of our better players in panic buys, leaving Martin in the lurch regarding filling gaps. There’s a good two thirds of the squad I would not be unhappy losing, but I don’t see that many players getting decent moves elsewhere…they’ll end up staying and stinking the place out unhappy that they’re still associated with a relegated side with high performance expectations. They’ll get picked because their stats look good and then they’ll perform terribly on matchday when the chips are down. It’s going to be a tough old season ahead I fear (unless we have a spectacularly successful summer window).

Personally I suspect Moore’s agent has told him to hold out for the 3 x deal and the Chairman, rightly, has called his bluff. To be fair, the club offered an increase but we don’t know what the starting salary was - 3 x £10k a year is still a bit of a piss-take, but I doubt that’s anywhere near the case.

It was ok..as to be expected. Although there were one too mentions of being aggressive!

I expect repeated cries of "we don't have the players to suit the required style of play", followed quickly by the realisation and recognition that SR have royally screwed up once again because (a) the already bloated squad was not pulled apart enough, (b) time ran out to bring in the players needed to improve the 1st team, (c) not enough money was spent resolving the lack of quality in certain positions in the squad (e.g. strikers), (d) Martin and his coaching team fail to eradicate the losing mentality ingrained into the squad. Other than that, promotion preferably as champions.

Agreed, but that’s part of the problem - where is his best position when he’s persistently been played deeper than his potential allows? I don’t think it’s just that we’ve not had personnel to sit besides Lavia…I think there’s more attacking intent offered by other players such as Alcarez. I’ve thought for some years that JWP has some useful attributes, but not enough in one particular area to make him indispensable…he’s a ‘luxury’ player and when he’s got lesser teammates around him, his shortfalls are amplified. For example, he looked SO much better when he had Romeu beside him.

One for the future?!? 🤔

Depends which valuations you believe, but if you’ve got between £30-45m to invest in a defensive midfield player, do you pick JWP or Lavia? Yes, they’re different types of player, but I can’t see any club stumping up the £m’s being bandied around for a 28 year old JWP and that’s not taking into account that he may actually want to stay faithful to Saints as a big fish in a smaller pond.

Yes, I think we agree that there is one specific that will go a long way to determine success or otherwise and that is he gets the backing of the Board to re-build the squad to a high standard and one that exceeds the squad of last season. Trying to emulate Swansea will just not cut it.

You've missed from that list Stephens, DCC, Edozie, Mara, Sulemana, Alcarez and a number of youth such as Ballard who made it into the first team on occasion. There's nothing to suggest any of these players will stay or leave - so that's one hell of a bloated squad full of mediocrity with 3-4 stand out individuals who will be sold if offers come in (only Lavia appears to be getting solid interest, but at this point no offer).

Do you mean from the Prem or the Championship or both? Can you name them (I can't!)?

But you see that's my point - everyone is pinning hopes on his previous stats with a different set of players in a different club set-up. Going forwards he's got a different set of problems to overcome, not least a demoralised relegated squad which is in danger of losing its best most influential players in Lavia, JWP and so on. Despite the fact that financially we're in a better place than our previous relegation to the Championship, this feels like it has the potential to go the same way in terms of squad improvement, bearing in mind that the bloated squad of recent times has been a shambles and needed significant strengthening. And I don't buy the argument that the Championship demands lesser quality - obviously it demands performances of Premiership quality to enable promotion. So my question remains - in the shadow of our best players leaving, how will Russell Martin and his team achieve the stated aim of the Club which is immediate promotion? What attributes does he have to match the demands of our club and 1st team squad? His style of football appears to be more of the slow and predictable type of game we've become so bored with, so getting supporters on-side will not be an easy task. Why did the defensive side of his game fail at Swansea and will that hurt us given we've suffered a poor defensive record ourselves in the past? You could argue that he's re-built failing squads in the past, however that's been at a level lower than Saints aspirations and ultimately those teams have not really stood out as exceptionally good. You could argue that he's got Championship experience which is a definite plus, however the task ahead of him cannot be underestimated. Expectations run high and when things go wrong like they did for Jones, will he crack under the pressure?

Do you honestly expect 8 signings this summer, given the £140m spent over the last two windows and the bloated squad we have already? When did we ever sign 8 in a window especially following relegation?

There are plenty of supporters who hope that Martin succeeds here myself included, but I’ve not seen ONE single convincing argument to indicate WHY he is expected to do well. There’s just previously gained stats and with a new club with new players with differing expectations etc., that means diddly squat! For example, which players in the current team suit his supposed preferred style of possession based football? Let’s see… Bazunu - yes, can see his distribution could be nurtured. Others not so much. Defence - Tino, KWP and Perraud and even Bree are capable, the CB’s not so much. Def Midfield - JWP and Lavia are capable, but likely to be off. Diallo and Smallbone not so much. Attacking Mid - Alcarez and Stu A are capable and possibly Sulemana if he gets his head up and improves his passing. Edozie could develop well. Others not so much. Strikers - Che and Tella are capable, but reports suggest they’re both off. Possibly Mara could be OK. Others not so much. So for Martin to be successful I would guess that we need to sign at least two CB’s, two DM’s, an AM and at least one very good striker. Six great players signed and after last seasons £140m low impact spending spree…likely? Jury’s out for me.

Seems to me that this is more of a style over substance appointment and consequently it’s difficult to know how it will pan out when the squad is so up in the air. Wilcox and Martin have a huge task getting the first team sorted out and the seasons results will hinge almost entirely on getting that right. Martin has to connect with a team of players who have developed a persistent losing mentality and ensure any new recruits don’t get infected. Huge task - wish him and his staff the best of luck.

This thread is starting to plumb the depths of a pit of utter weirdness! 🤪

There are reasons for him to stay given his age...(a) he seems to like what Le Tiss did in terms of being a one club player - it's a way of standing out and ensuring your name is always associated with your parent clubs history, especially when you're team Captain (b) family ties to the area - who wants to uproot a young family or put blockers in the way of spending time with them? (c) will he actually be any more successful in the type of club that he moves to - probably not as he'll end up at a middle to lower table team and right now he's a big fish in a slightly smaller pond. (d) he will more than likely thrive under Martin's tenure as he's a ball retainer and controls midfield. The club can't force him out as he's got a long contract. There may be a relegation clause that affects his salary, but that might be waived by the club if he stays and helps fight for promotion. I suspect his position has been discussed and for the better part resolved one way or the other. I'm not too fussed if he goes, but I certainly don't think there's a clear case for him to be sold.

And here we go… …oh.

You would have to question the sanity of anyone accepting that deal! Lyanco is a seasoned pro with great stamina and heart - ok his stats may not match the best in the Prem, but at least he’s shown up there. Got to be worth £8-10m in todays market.

Being a developmental and selling club means even when on long contracts, players ultimately hold all the cards. Let’s face it, when we promise the player and his agent that we’ll sell when the big clubs come calling, that’s exactly what we have to do. If we don’t do that for whatever reason our reputation of developing and releasing the best young players goes down the toilet and the model implodes. It won’t take long for the pro football grapevine to starting talking about how Saints Academy is failing youth.

I think there’s going to be one or two of the relegated sides that will struggle and Saints will be one of them. It’s going to take a huge effort to eradicate that losing mentality that became so pervasive over the last 2-3 years, particularly against ‘lesser’ teams.

I’m amazed that Aribo still has a place in our squad…those stats are shocking for a player that supposedly is an attacking, forward thinking player. And his work rate is demonstrably poor too. I hope we don’t need to see him in the match day team because that would be a sign of gross mis-management in my eyes, however with a new coaching staff it will take a while before he’s found out.