Clifford Nelson

I'm afraid you need some talent to start with for anybody to help you develop it. I cannot find anywhere to start with this bloke. He just needs to get back to Reading before he returns to non-league. I'm suffering from anxiety every day that he's here.

What is his actual potential? First touch? (he hasn't shown sign of having any) Crossing? (I can recall a large number of these ending up in the side netting or in the stands, but can't remember any good ones) Reading the game? (the bloke who first said "headless chicken" must have thought of MA) Pace? (in spite of a lot of mentioning of "blistering" pace he doesn't run away from full backs or even centre backs, so just exactly how quick is he?) If you're thinking about some other potential, please let me know.

Surely there isn't anybody out there who wouldn't like to have a blisteringly fast winger who can cross regularly from the bye-line? I just can't remember seeing one for many years, so if you know of one, who? I asked previously on this thread, but didn't have any suggestions: What is James' preferred position in the starting eleven, if everybody is fit? And as obsessed as derry might be about width, I am about the risk of seeing Antonio in a saints' shirt beyond the loan period. Just what is it with this bloke who hasn't got a first touch, can't cross, can't read the game and who is far from as pacy as some may think, which warrants him to start any game? Last season's squad is full of players who lack these skills and them we are trying to get rid of. Why on earth would we want another one?

I would be happy to have him on the bench, and I trust that he would always "do a job" when called upon, but he is now a guaranteed starter which seems a bit odd. He doesn't look like the first choice in any position IMO.

So what is a good position for him in the team? Instead of Murty? Instead of Waigo? Instead of Hammond or Schneiderlin? So far there has nearly always been an injury to cover for, but if everybody is fit?

An odd situation for a loan player, but at least it is an explanation. Antonio's skills can't be an explanation, nor can avoiding Waigo to score for us. Like you the obsession with Antonio is what worries me more than anything else.

I don't think Antonio is even substitute material where hopefully we are going. I'll be relieved when he's gone because I worry that we are about to make a terrible mistake and sign him. Clearly AP doesn't fancy Holmes, and I haven't got a view about that, but Mills is not the future in LM. We need a proper leftsided midfielder if we are to move Lallana into the middle, which you suggest. I also agree in the mains about James. He is not the answer as LB. We need a proper one, plus a CB to partner Jaidi, who AP has got confidence in for every game. A settled defense is the answer to leaking goals, which clearly we are.

The offside argument I think was always dodgy. Waigo got himself a reputation on o/s and many are the times I have seen the linesman flag long after the ball was kicked. I hope you are right on your prediction because I hate to see such talent sit on the bench.

Probably more glad to be rid of him. An experimental signing which didn't pan out. For anybody with eyes to see he hasn't panned out for us either for the very simple reason that he hasn't got the basics for playing at this level. A first touch would have been nice together with some basic idea of how the game is to be played. I can't for the life of me understand what AP sees in him.

I don't think that Mellis and Antonio were the alternatives. Mellis was undone by firstly both Morgan and Hammond being better players and Connolly making us abandoning the five man midfield. Mellis was certainly not more than a 'decent' player, but in my estimation not a 'good' one and I'll be surprised if the future will show him to have had more potential than I could spot. Antonio has kept Waigo out of the line-up, which drive me insane. Antonio can't do anything right and Waigo can't stop scoring or assisting given the chance to play. Antonio's shortcomings are just so glaringly obvious, so why is he preferred, and why does it look like we're going to sign him?

We've an unsettled defense which is a bit of a guarantee for shipping some goals. The RB position is critical and remains unsolved. LJ can sub for a game or two, but not for most of the season, and Thomas is not a long-term solution. The central pairing is still uncertain. If Trotman was the answer, which we thought he was, he would be back as a regular. Whoever is going to pair up with Jaidi must have AP's total confidence, and I don't think that person is at the club at the moment. Lloyd James has convinced very few people that he deserves a regular starting birth in one position or another. One of the few convinced is unfortunately AP. There is also a regular starting birth for a player who hasn't got a first touch, can't cross, can't see a player in position for a pass and hasn't got anywhere near as much pace as some people believe. Another one who scores and provides assists virtually every time he plays (another goal today if it wasn't for Lallana being o/s) spend most of his time on the bench. I desperately fear that the wrong one of the two will get a permanent contract, in fact it looks like a foregone conclusion. If the U's can run rings around him what is going to happen in the CCC? It's early days but the Jan window will tell us in what direction we're travelling. Why am I not as confident as I have been?

The task was indeed huge and AP has gone about it in an astute way. I don't think that any of the players you mention, apart from probably Drew, would get into this eleven if they were still here. In the margin I've got my doubts (Antonio instead of Waigo) and the persistent long balls or headers out of defense, but I haven't lost my belief. The january window will be an indication of what kind of players he'll be looking at.

We certainly shouldn't get on the boy's back, and I would never do that from the stands. Since I haven't seen anything from him that I do like or think worth developing, and have seen plenty of what I don't like and indications that he will not be easy to develop, I rather fear that there is a risk that he may be one that the booboys will be after eventually. I don't want that to happen and rather that we don't sign him.

You're expressing the same views as I have. I have the strange view that we were lucky yesterday. The margins weren't great and it could easily have gone wrong, especially if Tranmere had have a sharp striker. We have showed this season what a great footballing team we can be. Why did we give up on it? Leeds away is the real test.

I think you mean 'because' we re-built the team, not "despite" of it. Last seasons team would still be down the bottom with Tranmere.

I admit that it is a bit dodgy to be critical when the team keeps winning, and maybe I shouldn't, but playing pretty is not the issue. It has to be effective. The first goal yesterday came after a good passing move, only the second I can remember. The other goals was from freekick and pen. Maybe not quite as convincing when you look at that. We can play 'good' and effective football. Yesterday we won, the football wasn't 'good', most everyone agrees that, but was it effective, or were we just a bit lucky? If we beat Leeds away I'll shut up about it for a while just the same.

I admit that I haven't seen Antonio in an away game, only at SMS, and to be honest he doesn't only fail to do the basics, but everything else in my opinion. Up against a decent fullback the whole thing had 'clueless' written all over it. I am aware that this is L1 and that the boy is raw, but he is raw for a reason, and that is because there were no scouts who thought he was worthwhile, hence he was picked up very late by Reading, who quickly decided that they had made a mistake. So will we if we go ahead and sign him, since I can't see any of the attributes he needs to make a CCC player, and even less a PL one. We already have gone through the motions of buying youngsters nobody else wanted, and apart from ending up with an overblown first team squad, where most players don't get a kick (which is one of AP's current problems) how many discards from other clubs have made it here? Apart from my carping about him, it feels churlish to complain about the style of football from my team which has just won 3-0, and I probably wouldn't be doing so unless I had seen what we can do when we keep it on the ground and pass it around. That made me really excited, as did the first goal yesterday, but head tennis and long balls out of defence doesn't. I'm hoping this is an intermediate stage of our development.

I remember Harry Gration, the best phone in guide Radio Solent ever had, being banned from anything to do with the club for having the temerity to be a bit critical. I also remember his riposte that he had been banned from bigger clubs than this in the past and certainly didn't intend to keep his mouth shut. During the years the Echo's Saints coverage have been made by journalist who have tried to keep the peace. Maybe not to much success and irritating most fans. This move by Cortese is not good. A newspaper, even a local one, is there to cover the news, not to be the mouthpiece of the club.

Lambert is brilliant, but let's not forget Harding who came to us for free!!! He hasn't had a bad game yet. As for Antonio, who has been mentioned on this thread as well, my views are clear. He is not what we are looking for. In fact, he is quite dreadful.

First things first. We are in L1 and we won 3-0. Very good. And then some serious considerations: What happened with the fantastic football we produced in late September against Bristol and early October against Gillingham? I thought it was a sign of what we wanted to achieve, but it isn't there anymore. Instead there is a preponderence of head tennis and quick balls out of defence to the forward line. We have the players to take the ball down and pass it to feet, so why have we stopped doing it? The first goal tonight came from our only second decent attempt att playing the ball rather than launching it. I don't condemn the quick ball when something is on, but not all the time, eh? Mikhail Antonio showed again tonight why he dwelled for a long time in non-league football. If he were to have a future with us into the CCC and onwards he should at least be able to do the simple stuff well. Sadly he made no contribution tonight, no telliing passes or crosses and no successes against the Tranmere fullback. It was bad enought to border the embarassing. I really struggle to understand why a talent like Waigo sits on the bench for Antonio to perform like this. I've seen it all before, and his performance is not improving. There surely must be some other peculiar and unspoken reason why he keeps starting the games. I'm afraid that we are going backwards in footballing terms, sweat instead of skills, which is why Lallana, for instance, was failing to shine like we know he can. I'm somewhat worried that Leeds will take us apart. I hope I'm wrong, but please send Antonio back to Reading!!!

He was my favourite player from last year, but after a period of being frustrated because he wasn't playing I became clear that his talents weren't wanted in the team AP is putting together. He is a great lad with plenty of bravery and effort, and I wish him the best of luck. He was clearly going to do well in a team playing a different style from AP's.

We might be Div 3. but this is the most enjoyable season I've attended since the Branfoot days, and that includes the Strachan interlude.For the first time it feels like it's not going to be taken away from us suddenly. The bad old days are gone, the hate figures have been exorcised and we finally have a future. In the greatest of depressions in the summer I was writing about the joy of being able to discuss the virtues of a left back, and it feels that we are there. Conflict now is about 4-4-2 as opposed to 4-5-1, or Papa Waigo vs. Antonio. This is finally what we were supposed to be about. Scoring goals, winning games and having football discussions. I couldn't really be happier.

A foreign team I know quite well had three considerations for signing a new player: Pace, character and technique, in no specific order. They needed all three unless they had something in spades. Not a bad combination in my book. Many people on this thread are a bit upset about the Papa vs. Antonio debate, but essentially it was started by AP, who use one and not the other. In my book Waigo has got it all with polishing required on certain things. Antonio has got pace, there is no question about that. The technique looks a bit simple and lacking in control, and I'm not sure about the character. I fear that it is more than a bit of polish required. That doesn't make him rubbish in any way, and he may well come in and provide some impact on a tired fullback, but as a club we are looking at the CCC, maybe even next season, and an assault on the PL. Hmmm...

I agree in everything, apart from Antonio. I have been proved wrong before, but seldom in the area of a players psychological make-up, because it is comparatively seldom that that ever changes, but if we sign him and he turns out to be a peach, then I've been wrong. I'd be prepared for a wager that I'm right though.

My greatest worry about Antonio is the periods of 'headless chicken', so eminently demonstrated on Tuesday night. A lack of focus tinged with some desperation. He has looked better wide right, but wingers generally do need at least one trick on top of pace and crossing ability, and I don't think he has got one. Those without tend to end up as fullbacks, but I can't see that happening either. I am really sympathetic, because I didn't have a trick either and would have done dreadfully as a fullback, but then I didn't advance beyond amateur level either, which wasn't a terrible surprise. MA would have had me beat in every department. Whether the skills he's got will be of any use in the CCC I am very doubtful about. Waigo, on the other hand, with some fine tuning I can see playing even in the Premier.