Clifford Nelson

I can't imagine anyone who doesn't enjoy this season in comparison with a number of really appalling ones which we have just had. But then you also need to compare it to a five year plan for getting back to the PL, and then you must reasonably ask yourself if you can see what the strategy is for the football team. If you can see it, then please inform me.

I don't know if there was anybody with football knowledge present when AP was interviewed, and if it wasn't, then maybe the right questions weren't asked, and maybe there wasn't time either. We need to remember the comparative panic at the time to get a manager in and a team out to play the first game. From the poor start we have done very well. But NC seems to be a quick and astute learner, and he is now maybe starting to ask the questions which weren't on his mind before. If the answers aren't palatable then he is not likely to hang on another six months or a year for a very simple reason: If a manager is the wrong choice then another six months or a year is not going to make a difference. I sincerely hope that we are not going to appoint and discard as before, until we have firmly established what we want. If AP is what we want in the long term he is likely to stay, if not, then I hope not too much time is wasted. Time is only a good thing if what you are using it for is the right thing to start with.

No team will be successful without hard work, but you're making the mistake of saying 'hard work or pretty football', which is to fall right into the hole dug by the pragmatist. Pretty or not, no team has ever been successful without a good strategy either. Success required both, not just one.

I think you are asking the wrong question. Charisma won't do it. Southampton Football Club needs a footballing strategy, and future managers needs to be interviewed as to what strategies they favour and their history in that respect. Football management, especially below the very top, is left to whatever pragmatic manager of the day. And pragmatism is our enemy, not our friend. We don't know what it's judgement is from day to day, and neither do the players. Confused players play confused football, or resorts to the lowest common denominator, which is usually the way the opposition play. This club needs first of all a Sporting Director with no ambitions as a manager, but with the intelligence and experience to develop a footballing strategy. This is not a job for a manager. Then we can discuss who the manager should be.

I think you are proven right in the mains. Like most folks I was delighted with the Norwich result, and I'm always pleased with our successes, but however hard I try I can't see a pattern of our play, apart from the one you are pointing out, i.e. to hoof the ball in the direction of Lambert's head. Your analysis of how this is happening I also think warrants merit. If we are to retain the 4-4-2 formation there must be something more to it than the huffing and puffing of every other team in the division. To have better players, which seems to be AP's strategy, cannot do it in the long run since there are far too many teams in PL and CCC who will be happy to outspend us, and judging from last night, even the short perspective is doubtful. We must find a strategy which allows us the confidence to take the ball down and pass it, and which deals with poor and mediocre teams hard work but limited ability.

There are insults and rants, untempered emotional outburst and whinges and moans, but there is also reasoned debate. The first few appears in any open forum and can best be ignored. But no owner deserves reasoned debate to be curtailed. I can't help but thinking that both ML and NC would be concerned if they thought that we no longer expressed our opinions in deference to them.

Good point. Outplaying those who wants to play we have been quite good at, but playing deeper to lure out a defensive team and hit them on the break is not a skill I have seen us employ so far.

In defense of Pardew he inherited a squad of players who were not good enough and with their confidence broken late in the pre-season. Only four of our first game starting eleven still get a regular starting berth. There hadn't been a winning attitude for several years, etc. etc. etc. And then it was, of course, the -10points we started with. Pardew has made a quite remarkable job with all of the shortcomings he had to deal with and so little time to change it all. I am critical in one area only, which is his tactical pragmatism and the belief that application and hard work is more important than tactics. He sets one thing against the other, when history tells us that both are just as important: No team anywhere in the world has had success without the right mental attitude and good conditioning. But no team has had much long term success doing what everbody else are doing, without having considerably deeper pockets than the opposition. We might have here in L1, but not the further up we're travelling. However, when it comes to what AP was up against when he arrived here, he is worthy of praise for what he has done. Norwich started out with a poor manager who got rapidly replaced with a good one. Who do I think had the worst job? Ahhh, let me think......

I think most of this thread shows the nervousness around the place. Sometimes it works (1st half vs. Pompey) sometimes it doesn't (Stockport), but we are still at a loss what it is that leads to one or another. We just don't know what Saints team is going to come out on that pitch in canaryland. The team needs confidence around it, but it isn't there. Expressions of over confidence isn't going to solve this one. I, for one, need to have more of an idea of the direction we travel in. The Pompey game showed that we have the will to fight, but I'm still not any clearer. What it looks like is that we are going to play 4-4-2 in exactly the same way as everybody else, but we are going to have better players doing it. If that is it I'm not impressed. For every promotion we will have to have better players than the rest. I doubt that works in CCC and certainly not in the PL. We just won't have enough money to buy ourselves a new and better team each year. The creative box needs opening, but does AP know how? In the meantime I really hope that we'll beat Norwich to start with.

If we keep playing him, then we should sign him. He creates or is at the end of more chances than any other player in most games he's playing and he seems to have solved the off-side problem now. I consider him to be the most talented player we have, but he must be played right. Up front in a 4-4-2 or on the right of a front three. Sadly AP doesn't fancy him, so I consider it an academic issue.

Tactically Sven is yesterday's man, and he is also too keen on his own publicity. Our Sporting Director needs to have an up to date knowledge of international football and and recent developments in the game whilst not craving fame or celebrity status, and also having his team management time firmly behind him. Under no circumstances should he manage the team, but if necessary put his whole weight behind finding a new manager. Svennis? Sorry, the answer is no!

The day there is no nervousness at all at SMS on an evening of this magnitude after a few iffy results is when AP/NC have finally established the winning mentality in and around the whole club. Not quite there yet, but a lot has been achieved.

So the players suddenly started to become inconsistent? I find that difficult to accept. What we could see at one point was a way of playing the game, which was changed to another way of playing the game, which was exactly the same way as the opposition. That has nothing to do with inconsistency.

To get three wins out of the above would be fantastic, but I'm still looking for a direction. Three wins from huffing and puffing is not going to convince me that it is the way forward.

It seems like you're as bewildered as me.

If there is anybody out there who could explain what it is AP is trying to do, then please tell me. I remember Bristol Rovers at SMS. I was elated going home, thinking that I've seen a pre-view of the future. So we lost, but I thought with a few changes and one or two new players we would be unbeatable in this league. The direction was clear as daylight. And here we are.... What the h*ll happened!?

By this time in the season I expect the manager to be clear over what the best positions are for his players. But is he clear over Lallana? Or Waigo? He also out to have demonstrated what type of football he expect the players to play, but if I'm to draw any conclusions from the football I keep watching the instructions are: Keep heading the ball forward and hit it for Ricky's head, and I can't believe that is the intention. By now we ought to be clear over whether our strength is 4-4-2 or 4-5-1. To change the game plan in the middle of most games doesn't fill me with confidence, so what about the players? AP ought to have the confidence of his convictions, but I'm not sure what they are. So for those who feels that things are OK at the moment, could you tell me what game plan you see when you're watching the games.

I think your argument is a good one for not getting the results. My argument is about that I can't see what it is that AP is trying to achieve. The formations keep changing and the players withing those formations through the games. I'm no longer sure that there is a really coherent thought in it all, a game plan, if you like.

Are you clear about what it is that he is trying to achieve? It's not clear to me and a number of others. If we could see the emergence of something I'm sure we would all be much happier.

I just noticed that the same happened to you on another thread. Sometimes it's difficult to float above those things and not snap back.

Return you mind to Terry Paine and John Sydenham and the pitches they played on. I can't recall them not playing if the pitch was narrow or boggy.

If we are to play 4-4-2 that doesn't look bad to me. CM is more concerning because those four players require some support from the middle of the park.

You will have read the threads and shouts for those who have a more critical attitude to shut up as well, haven't you. It brought to mind the thought that in this case AP is beyond criticism. Now you take that thought one or two steps further, and where do you get? It gets to me that in a country where millions have died fighting for our rights to freely determine our own future. I equate that with the rights to have a reasoned debate about our football team without anybody being shouted at for daring to be critical of the manager. Is that moronic?

If the team was actually playing entertaining football it would be easier to look at possibly replacing various players with better ones. In the current pragmatic emphasise on clearances; heading the ball forward at every opportunity; and aiming for Ricky's head, it is very difficult to see what better players would achieve, because this is not the result of a poor playing staff, they have already proved that they can do better. There is nothing wrong with working hard, but it must be for a purpose. At the moment the purpose is lost, and so is the entertainment. No amount of time given to a manager without purpose to his actions will not be of much use.

NC will have learnt a thing or two during his time at Saints. When he arrived he was in a hurry to put a manager in place to get a team to play. Things have no doubt moved on from there, but I doubt very much if he just blithely is going to replace one manager with another in a return to the old merry go round. He appears too astute for that. Before we get any change in management we will have an arrival of the Sporting Director for a review of the footballing strategy. This is not an area where AP is especially strong, that at least is clear. As for our 'blind faith in AP' brigade which pops up on all threads hysterically yelling to quell all signs of intelligent discussion: You remind me most of the revolutionaly guards on the streets of Teheran, trying to beat down the voices of reason. And here is news for you: AP is not a descendant from a higher plane, nor an appointed Ayatollah, who is here to be obeyed.