Clifford Nelson

Some of us, like Derry, like to have a bit of intelligent debate. If you disagree, then argue, but keep to the point. Witless insults and feeble put-downs are not very useful.

Wrong, see above!

You've got it. It is quite sensational, but he's not given any credit.

There is also a player who has only started 10 games but nevertheless scored 11 goals this season. plus contributed a hatfull of assists...Well, who is that then?

It's funny how opinions vary about a player we have actually seen play. In my opinion he has been the weakest player on the pitch in the last two home games and I can't understand why he hasn't been subbed. The hangs on to the ball until he loses it or misplaces the few reluctant passes he makes. And still lots of people can't see him as anything but brilliant. I thought there must be a reason for him not really making a success of wherever he's been, with a tendency of sliding down the league system repeatedly. The lack of ability to concentrate on the task in hand might be an answer, because I've also seen him being much better than what he recently has demonstrated.

Judging from the way AP has treated and played Antonio and Waigo it seems very clear to me. He likes Antonio, plays him and supports his confidence. His signing is an absolute certainty. Regarding Waigo, AP doesn't fancy him, plays him sparingly, ignores his goal scoring and assisting prowess, and undermines his confidence. I can't see him being offered a contract, and if he was, why would he want to play here? My appreciation for Antonio has improved somewhat from my early assessment of him, but whilst fun to watch he is a limited player. I would think that giving him a years contract, which will be cheap and uncontested, would make us find out whether he's got what it takes or not. I also believe that Waigo is one of our most underrated players of all time. Properly supported and played in the positions he is best at I think he has the potential to become a superstar. His scoring and assist record this season tells us of a rare talent. Sadly we won't see him blossom at Southampton.

I think that most people agree that it was a poor performance. If it was only a matter of the quality of players this should have been easy. But as Brentford, Exeter, Tranmere, Brighton show, having the better players isn't the one and only anwer. If it was, then this game would have shown that the team isn't good enough for the CCC. Puncheon had his second very poor home game on the trot. And then Antonio comes on for Barnard?! Surely AP doesn't think that he is a budding striker, or that he would beef up centre midfield. Whatever the thought was it didn't work out, but it was hardly a surprise. This is the kind of thing which makes me doubt AP's expertise at times. There was a striker on the bench who has scored 11 goals and umpteen assists in 11 starts and a number of subs. If Barnard needed replacing he should have been the choice, surely. Personally I don't think that 4-4-2 or 4-5-1/4-3-3 should be tactical decisions. They show intent on how the team should be playing it's football. I suspect it is mainly confusing for the players to swap from one to the other. We were fantastically successful in 4-5-1 earlier in the season, and have intermittently been successful with 4-4-2 since. Personally I think it makes us predictable, and when it doesn't work for us then we are struggling to assert ourselves. 4-5-1 is a more flexible system. The three midfielders can be deployed as 1-2 with a defensive anchor, or 2-1 with an offensive point making it 4-4-1-1, or the all out offensive 4-3-3. On tuesday night I was waiting for us to start taking the game to the O's and dictate it. It never happened. Against a team like them I think we should do better. It couldn't be a surprise that they would put players behind the ball, could it?

He has got more skills than any other striker in the team, and I would prefer him to Barnard any day. Like Barnard he has the ability to read the goal scoring opportunities and being in the right place, but he can also do things with the ball that Barnard could only dream of. But AP doesn't seem to appreciate subtlety. I would love to see us signing him and using him properly next season, but I can't see it happening.

There will be an exodus in the summer I'm sure, just check out the first team squad and the ones of those who will never get a sniff at even a place on the bench. Many are leftovers from a previous period when we signed anything under the age of 20 on long contracts with no questions asked. I think we have mainly agreed that we need another CM and to resolve the RB problem which refuses to go away. Would AP consider James to be the answer to both these holes if he was fit? The one I'd think he'll let go is Papa, sorry to say.

And kept us in the competition both against Torquay and Norwich. From that perspective the cup was more his than anybody elses. I rate him very highly and it's a pity that AP doesn't seem to. I doubt we'll see him here next season.

Wembley; 50000 saints fans; we scored four goals and won the cup; even the weather was OK. Could it have been any better?

It will be a long time before we get another free transfer of the quality of Harding. Without Lambert's goals he surely would have been signing of the season, if not over many seasons.

Interesting to see so much unanimity about MOTM. It was Fonte for me, but only the slightest shade ahead of Harding and Lambert. Also great to see so many posts on Harding. If it wasn't for Lambert's 32 goals, he must surely be our signing of the season! It is unbelievable that he cost us nothing. If there ever was a potential cult figure it surely must be Papa Waigo. Not his best game today, but spent far too much on the left, where he is less effective. (I think AP is somewhat overrating the importance of swapping positions during the game, because Lallana seems less effective to the right as well, not to speak of Antonio up front.) Papa scored his 11th this season from 11 starts (when he usually comes off) and 17 sub performances. It looked simple, but you need to be in the right place for it to be simple, which he invariably is. I challenge anybody to name any player who is likely to have produced more from those limited possibilities. And let's not forget that Papa saved us twice in the competition. Without his goals we likely would have gone out both against Torquay and Norwich. I also must agree with Weston, that the officials did a decent job yesterday. After some of what we recently have seen they ought to have medals.

In one respect the article warrants some further thought: People with money, or close to money, rung football clubs. They make decisions about managers, hiring and firing them. In neither respect are they much qualified in judging managers. Contrary to most of them NC actually acknowledged this weakness when he arrived, and intended to appoint a Sporting Director, who would have the skills and experience needed to make these judgements. For this we all ought to have been grateful. There are now some signs, and I hope that I'm wrong, that NC may start believing that the game isn't very complicated at all and that he may already be qualified enough to do without any sporting/footballing expertise in the boardroom. I sincerely hope that this is not the case, but evidence suggests that I may be wrong. The footballing solidity of the club is actually quite weak, and consists of a manager and a few coaches who has got a few months in the job, and not a soul on the board. Every time we have changed manager we have also returned to Year Zero.

Steady on now, there is no need to describe pensioners as being mentally challenged. Senility strikes some, and not always in their old age, but far from all. You're also wrong that they and "middle management" are the readership of the paper. The right answer is actually WOMEN. The Mail has been spectacularly successful in attracting them to what is indeed a very poor newspaper, but a very good paper in spreading prejudicial right wing propaganda.

Another dismal performance made even worse by placing Waigo as CM, and Hammond as RM, at least that's what I think it was. Waigo is RM in a 4-5-1 or striker in 4-4-2, I think that is clear. RM in a 4-4-2 is not ideal, but he can do it. He is avoiding heading the ball, tackles with his feet only, and doesn't enjoy the physical side of the game, but he has now scored 10 from 10 starts and 17 subs appearances. I haven't got an assist record, but it must be good. That is, in my estimation, a quite remarkable record. Schneiderlin is now growing out into that playmaking CM which we have been crying out for for years. Superb yesterday. Puncheon didn't have his heart in the game at all. Ought to have been subbed if we had had an alternative. What's happened to Lee Holmes? H-pool's second goal came from their RB. Where was Puncheon? Mills fills me with worries. He never seemed to provide any difficulties for H-pool's LM and in the second half he was often not there at all. Has he got it even at this level? I'm pleased that we won, but I didn't see anything in yesterday's game which gave me any encouragement that there are some clear ideas on purpose from management.

Hassan Kachloul was a great player. I will always remember the game he played for the reserves at the Dell when he was on trial. He was a revelation and scored a wonder goal. He was signed a day or two later. Sadly his and his agent's dealings weren't very delicate.

Neal Bartlett was suddenly slung into the first team by Ian Branfoot, and played a few games on the trot and then disappeared. Neal was a useful CM with good skills who could have gone on to establish himself if his head had been on the job of becoming a footballer. He couldn't focus on it and eventually ended up in non-league. I think he may have played for Vosper Thorneycroft.

I'm convinced that the word "consistency" is a weasel word. In the posts your arguing with it's used presumably because they think "change" would equate "upheaval". I can't remember anybody who suggested that Mark Wotte ought to stay at Saints "to maintain consistency". Last time AP used it he meant that we should be brilliant in every game, which is wishful thinking.

One probably ought to add that Man U and Arsenal both had boards at the time with experience, deep pocket in the case of Wenger, and a good portion of luck when it came to Ferguson. If there were many managers like them around things would be easy, but it isn't the case. Most managers in the english game come from the same background, which is the explanation to why they all play the same game, with very few exceptions. Hard work and commitment is considered to be enough together with a bog standard 4-4-2. Some are better motivators than others, and some have some temporary luch and get promoted. To swap one such manager for another is a complete lottery. An SD should be a completely different character than a manager. Somebody who has been there and done it and learnt a lot in the process, and dare I say it, who can demonstrate intelligence. A proper Director who directs, when the manager manages. Think about your own job: Do you think your directors are sitting there hoping to take over the managers job? And if the answer is, as I expect, no, then why should it be any different in football.

I believe NC to be a sensible person who knows that when it comes to footballing strategies he hasn't got any experience apart from what he may have learnt this season, and possibly rather little historic knowledge. Any CEO can have the final say in any appointment if he wish to have it, but there is no shame in taking on board somebody with a lot of knowledge who could provide a blueprint for this club's footballing development. Ferguson is effectively the SD for Man U, and has been so for many years. They were very lucky to appoint him. His and his club's situation shouldn't be compared with us apart from what we would like to aspire to. For instance the ability to beat more than the bottom half of the table 90% of the time and never lose to any of them. That comes from a plan of how to play football as well as hard work, not just the latter.

I don't know about the prize money, but any winning spirit is built on winning every game, and we're not anywhere near that yet. The whole idea that "it doesn't matter" must be banned from any competitive activity. This club has gone around for years saying that the youth team and reserve team isn't there to win games, and pre-season isn't about it either. As we have seen through the years this attitude breeds complacency, which translates into lost point and cup games when it really matters.

In the first 9 league games of the season we managed to get a sum total of 9points, which shows the lack of quality together with lack of pre-season which AP had to deal with. For that he needs a bit of understanding. Then came the Bristol Rovers at home game, which in spite of us losing it still was my best experience of the season. It showed what we were capable of doing and we set out on a 16 game run with only 1 loss and 13 wins. But by the end of it AP's belief in the 4-5-1 had long faded. He probably never had any belief in it and merely adjusted to the fact that we only had one striker which he fancied. We had returned to 4-4-2, hoofball, head tennis, preferring conference players to Serie A alternatives, and sacrificing width. Our run since then is OK, which it should be with so much better players, but it isn't league winning quality. No manager can guarantee winning all games, but our downfall hasn't been the top of the league, but a series of inept performances against clearly inferior opposition. Complaints about pitches and referees should not cloud the lesson learnt from all walks of life, that poor planning produces poor performance. Next season is not going to provide anything better, apart from a better start of the season, and therefore a good chance of promotion. Following that we might be back to the CCC, but playing wise we will still be at square one, wondering whether even more, and increasingly expensive, players will do the job better. The return to 4-4-2 signified to me a lack of conviction rather than any belief in it's superiority. Playing wise we returned into the anonymity of the mass of british football. Am I capable of coming up with all the answers? No, I'm not. I freely admit not ever to have either played or managed at the highest level, but I can regognize a problem when I see one. If Saints are to return to the top level as a competitive side we need a blueprint to our football, which will give direction to the management, and render any more Tranmere episodes obsolete. I'm hoping that this will still happen, and in the meantime I will enjoy my football when we're winning. But I am not fooling myself that this is the new dawn.

You've got it! We will have a few more points because we're not likely to have such indifferent start of the season, but otherwise... And welcome to a small band of posters who believe that we have seen the chink in the armour. I have been asking similar questions to you for a few weeks now, and nobody have tried to engage in a coherent argument for why I am wrong. Therefore I believe that both of us are right, but it doesn't fill me with any joy.

I think the race to CCC is probably over for us, but that is probably not the most important point long term. I think that Tranmere and Swindon, as well as Exeter and Brentford, are highly significant for showing our lack of plan when the ball doesn't run for us, which is the entire argument I am offering. That is altogether ten points lost due to bewilderment in adversity. Together with our first few games of the season, that's the difference between our current position and one in the play offs. Regarding AP I am convinced that he isn't the answer in the longer perspective, but I will not join any silly calls for removing him. Just like your example with George Burley, who on the face of it seemed to have the pedigree, but failed repeatedly, this is what I'm suggesting ought to be avoided at any cost. Successful cv is all very good, but there is more to it than that: Just exactly what was it he did to get that success? To spot those subtle issues is not really NC's forte. He needs help and that's why think an SD would be very helpful indeed, because an SD should be a person knowing exactly how this club should play it's football to be successful. Without that knowledge the changing of managers becomes entirely a lottery.