Clifford Nelson

Looking forward to it.

Are you sure it is for the manager's position, Ron?

Is this somebody who quite his job just over a fortnight ago, Andy? If so I don't think he is in the running for the manager's job (which could well be Zola, since the source previously gave us do Prado), but for that of the Sporting Director. Do we think that NC is working entirely from his own limited knowledge of football, or has he been adviced by somebody already. My guess, which I wrote on another thread, is that we will not only get a manager, but a new structure in place, and that it might be one or two of the coaches who are not quite yet in place.

I agree Dave. I am also far from convinced that the new manager will be british and maybe this will be the time that the sporting director post will be filled. What leads me to think that is that somebody who has repeatedly been linked with the club since before Pardews appointment left his club a fortnight ago saying that it was his last managerial job. He had only been in post for some four months. And I also think that somebody will have adviced NC in what to do next. If I'm right then the decision to sack the management team has been fomenting for some little time, which doesn't surprise me, and no doubt the structure as well as the personnel around the first team will start falling into place quite soon. If not, and the sacking was an impetuous act, I have totally misjudged NC.

There was really no surprise apart from the timing and the disclosure of disquiet amongst junior coaches (who are they?). The requirements for this season were very clear, and even AP expressed it in terms of "now excuses". Instead I've heard a series of excuses after every game we haven't won, and that includes what must reasonably be termed as a very disappointing preseason. Did this look like the management team which was to take us into the PL? And that is what NC is planning. So is it therefore any real surprise? What would be a great surprise is if NC hasn't already made plans going back some time. Somebody, or some options, are already available and the details will be ironed out over the next few days. Where I will be very surprised is if we will see an inexperiences manager. Whatever their qualities, Paul Tisdale and Eddie Howe will not be in any frame. Neither will Kevin Blackwell or Ian Dowie. Whoever is coming will have the credentials to produce the goods from here to the PL.

When AP arrived I appreciated the 'no excuses' atmosphere he brought. We weren't good enough; we had lost our winning habit; etc. I had grown tired of many years of excuses. Last season ended with an acceptance that with -10 points, no pre-season and a demoralised team to start the season with, it wasn't bad going to finish the way we did. And the club endorsed the idea, that next season there was to be no excuses because nothing which gave us a bad start and a difficult season was no longer there. I always felt that the pre-season was wrong in virtually every way, and didn't seem to build towards our readiness for Plymouth. The "you just wait for the next game" came and went without any real changes. Every game collected an excuse of one sort or another. We know what our results have been since the start, now. We have also heard the excuses, which denies the 'no excuses' promises. From all that I think I understand how TT feels. I actually expected better this time around and I am surprised if that wasn't the case for all of us. End of the world? No. Sackcloth and ashes? No. But unless things turn around very quickly it can become remarkably similar to last year.

With "let go" you tend to mean getting sacked or in football, given a "free". The only ones who qualify in that list is Wise (as a youngster), Cranie and Mills. Phillips we pushed out the door when we got relegated and didn't want to pay is wages, quite apart from that he wanted to leave. It's always harder to answer if you listen to the question first. And now, ladies and gentlemen, I am definitely leaving the building regarding this subject.

What, they all had a better goals to starts ratio than 12 to 15!!! This is all getting silly and I will gently withdraw with that as my last word.

You're misinformed. It was 12 starts overall, only 5 of them in the league. That suddenly makes 2 in 5 look more than respectable.

I think your right, because I don't think any of us had any bias for him, and not that I can think of what that could have been. He had some unexpected qualities which if you put them up against the like of Puncheon, makes you realise how entirely predictable that guy is.

It was a question, so make some suggestions!

You forgot the 7 (that is 12 alltogether for us who can count) in the cups for somebody who only ever got 15 starts, and, I admit, a number of sub appearances often enough on the left of a 4-4-2, which must have been a very strange experience. Put his record up against footballers generally and anywhere and keep telling me that he was no better than a squad player in the third division.

Thanks Ron, it's hard not to stand up for what I think is probably the most talented player we've ever let go. Can you think of a better one?

I hope Guly will do extremely well here, in spite of not believing that he was an obvious first pick in Serie A. What I'm more interested in is whether he is just to replace Hammond, or whether AP has got the balls (oops, balls and goolies in the same post) to play a 4-4-1-1, 4-5-1 or any other formation which accommodates somebody to plays behind the striker. I doubt it, and fear that he might not have Hammonds defensive qualities, and therefore leave us unbalanced. We will have to see. The contract seems fine by me. If he is not what we want he can go back and if it is a true option deal he will remain ours if we want him to stay. There is no comparison with Antonio here. Reading had an option to extend his contract with a year, which they took only to try to force Saints to pay for him, and thinking that they also had a development fee to collect. As it happened they got neither. The one losing on that deal is Antonio who will now spend a year not playing football until he is released in the summer.

And I suppose you don't give two hoots about how many Lallana scored coming in from the left wing either, and rather play him through the middle? What you and I might think must surely be challenged by the facts, and if not I think that we are far to stubborn. Waigo was a perfect player for the right side of a 4-3-3/4-5-1, I'm sure he had little or no experience of 'ye olde english 4-4-2' with it's long balls and hitting heads against a pair of enormous CBs. In spite of that he scored and laid on goals at some amazing rate. We missed a trick by not appreciate it.

I suppose that you have compared his number of starts with his number of goals as well and found him wanting?

AP has frequently said something about that we are looking for another couple of players, but today in the Solent interview he said, when asked, that he had no comments to make. This is different from previously, so what has happened. Has he been told that he has to live with what he's got? In another ten days we will know.

Your observations are excellent. Our problems, just as you say, are not new, but remains there from last season, whilst they should have been ironed out by now. The loss of Waigo and Antonio only makes it worse. It is time for a change.

It really was as grim as all that, apart from the first tweny. Jaidi is clearly yesterday's man; Puncheon is running into dead ends as usual, although today especially poorly; Hammond remains average, and I can't remember seeing him anything but average; and Kelvin is not happy to roll the ball out, nor is the defense keen on building attacks. As a result it's either a hoof from KD, or one from Jaidi. The lack of Waigo and Antonio really hits home when you are looking at the bench. There wasn't a game turning player amongst them. It is early days, which everyone keeps mentioning, but I can't see any difference in the way we are trying to bludgeon the opposition, just the same as last year, but this year they will be well prepared for it. The 4-4-2 formation is not one for trying to find holes in tight defenses, as the rest of the world has discovered. To make things worse our two wide players need to turn inside, because they are both wrongfooted. So who do we find wide right more often then not? Barnard! That means that he isn't around the box anymore, and furthermore he isn't a winger. I would much rather have someone who is supposed to be there, and who can use his 'outside' foot for knocking in crosses. That player isn't Puncheon. I'm disappointed that we don't seem prepared for the season, which the pre-season indicated, and that our football hasn't advanced at all. My nagging doubt is that this is the limit of AP's footballing vision, and that he was never comfortable with his 4-5-1 experiments. Now I suppose that we will knock ten bells out of Bolton on Tuesday, when it doesn't really matter.

There are plenty of wind up merchants here who just love you to bite. If you don't they can't carry on forever, or they'll keep on talking to themselves. Leave it well alone. You know there are more interesting things to discuss.

You mean to say that he has got a possible lifetime contract!? Since I find that rather difficult to believe, even though senior no doubt was involved, can you tell who your source is?

It is off topic, but as far as I understand he was given 3 years to start with, so he is under contract for another year.

It's encouraging that there are that many who now take this issue seriously. If anybody wants to start a very happy thread, generally congratulating the club and figuratively patting each others backs, then all well and good, but that is as conservative as it comes. Either it wants things to just stay as they are or thinking that the boss is always right. I am one of those who is more interested in how I think that things can be improved, which makes me critical of some aspects of what's going on. Currently it is our rather stone age formation, and kicking it long for Lambert, which gets silly when he's not playing and we're playing it long and high for Connolly! I think it was easier for us as a community before the takeover, when being critical to the point of desperation was the way we all felt (the 3 or 4 who didn't need not reply). But sticking together in desperation isn't the future. I live with being ignored, but am irritated when I'm ignored because my fewer and fewer posts drowns in the verbal brawls which are going on. I like a well argued point, even if it's one I disagree with, but a world full of 'positive thinking' and bullying (I like the analogy of playing the man, not the ball) I find difficult to put up with. Maybe there is something promising in this thread, and that's definitely good. Then, maybe, I can get somebody to explain to me what is so forward looking in playing 4-4-2, when the rest of the world have given up on it.

The world never stands still. Since then we have gotten rid of 13 who where never going to play first team football hear. Sadly we also lost Antonio, who gave us speed and unpredictability and Waigo who also gave us goals and the possibility to play up front, and we have replaced these attacking options with two right backs and a left back. That's the situation we're in now, which looks in need of new attacking alternatives. A back-up for Lambert and an additional centre midfielder have been discussed for months. I don't feel convinced that a promotion is certain before we have dealt with these issues. Then, later on, things will change again and we will need other players to keep progressing. Hopefully we will not then have the reserves full of players that nobody wants to buy, or even taking on a free.