Minty

We disagree on many things Duncan, but that's spot on. Although it may not all be tears. All depends who buys us, if that is what happens. Better the devil you know mind...

Look at it this way... if a new owner comes in who *wants* the club, then yes, we might be in for a period of uncertainty but we might actually come out of things better in the long run. If current owners don't want to own/invest in the club, then so be it, nowt we can do, but the long term is more important... something we should know only too well after we nearly disappeared completely. Losing good players is one thing, losing the club quite another. At least we have a pretty attractive infrastructure to sell if that is what it comes to. Like it or not, this has always been a possibility for any club owned by a private company or individual and fans need to come to terms with it, or walk away.

Certainly mirrors most of what Crab Lungs said too - interesting times.

http://www.hat-trick.fr/southampton-est-en-vente/

I'm still waiting for Crab Lungs to turn up to a football match that happened back in about 2008.

Guest post by me seeing as I'm way too mainstream to normally frequent this thread. But just got the album 'Forever Tomorrow' by Weekend Sun, courtesy of Hero Records. Described as "soul, funk, jazz, hip hop and reggae-flavours" http://www.herorecords.co.uk/?p=2377 Some of you might like it. Or maybe not. The label was started by a Saints fan and DJ friend of mine, the name is based on his own releases which are released under the name 'Hero Number 7'... no prizes for guessing why.

I'm looking deeper than that. Obviously 'we' need signings but *I* want to know more about why what is happening is happening if possible. Get some background to the decisions being made as an indication of where the club is headed.

To be honest, the way things are going you're probably right. Permanent indignation until the first game kicks off, and by then we'll all be watching Eastleigh. lol.

Once we get all the indignation and knee-jerk out of the way, I think there is a genuine need for local media to try their best to actually get some information out of the club about what is happening and why. People can vent all they like at various individuals and at club statements, and throw insults around til January, but that achieves nothing. If we want some real answers about things, then some pressure perhaps needs to be put forward in the right manner, through local media. Katharina's previous statement highlighted things like transparency, commitment to success etc, so I think there are fair questions to be asked now. But it needs to be done in the right way.

Ta both.

On here it is.

Hyper-wobble. Hyphenated or not? And do i go hyper-wobble, or do I have a hyper-wobble? Important to get this right. Although seriously, agree with Mallagroth, still going to wait and see how the squad looks in two weeks time.

Or perhaps he is just tweeting what he has been told. I actually feel sorry for the media team... they're the ones who have to face a lot of the vitriol from some 'fans' when they're just being paid to do a job. They're not fans, and don't deserve to be treated the way they are sometimes.

I have no idea. I haven't cycled much for years apart from a bit of commuting a few years ago. I care not for brand or 'prestige' just a solid value bike that I can use for the commute and perhaps the odd event. I certainly won't be looking to upgrade in a year, I simply can't afford it. £800 is really the top end of what I can afford too, £600 is perhaps more realistic but with some headroom if there is a good offer.

Now confirmed on Twitter.

Cheers for that.

Looking for a new road bike - been years since I bought a bike and that was a hybrid... decided I want to get a road bike through the governments cyclescheme, and want something half decent, without breaking the bank (up to about £800 I reckon will be affordable for me when taken through the govt scheme). Will be used mostly for commuting so relative comfort preferable to straight speed, although I may think about doing a duathlon or triathlon at some point, but that's secondary really. Any cyclists out there got any recommendations?

Interesting stuff. Just one thing though. No one has given a 'verdict' yet. And the whole international community has called for a credible international investigation into what happened, not just Putin. That is exactly what should happen and all this postulating either way needs to be notched back a bit until it happens.

Unwilling *so far* for the reasons I've stated. This is all supposition though. The massive rush to judgement by who? Many members of the public who aren't able to think for themselves? Yes, fair enough, as your point about the main board and transfer rumours shows. But diplomats and official investigators are not making final judgements - they are putting across accusations based on evidence they supposedly have. And just because they have not presented their proof to you yet, does not mean they do not have it at all. If you believe my response is a fair line of reasoning that only falls on the part of the judgements being made then what we effectively have is the equivalent of a standard court case... allegations being made, evidence gathering by the prosecution in preparation of charges being put forward. And just as in our justice system, allegations are made and charges can be brought before the full weight of evidence is brought forward. That is done at a later date, i.e. at a trial. If those allegations are not proven, then those alleged against will be not guilty. Nothing that is happening here is particularly out of the ordinary, and certainly does not, IMO, indicate any kind of 'fit up'.

Sorry pap, but you can't ask for proof from others, and then make a point without any whatsoever. I'm willing to entertain the possibility, but like everything in this discussion, we can only judge on the evidence before us and make our minds up accordingly. To make our minds up on no evidence whatsoever, is somewhat misguided IMO. As I said, it could be that they need to go through a process of verifying this, or cross-referencing it with other evidence from other organisations or countries. If it doesn't come out at all, then I might agree with you, but I'm not going to judge them in the same way while investigations are ongoing. I'm pretty sure the US (and the UK, and the Netherlands, and Australia remember...) is not basing it's accusations on purely social media alone... I suspect they will have followed up initial reports that may have come from social media, and then sought to verify the evidence by contacting people directly, along with their own data, etc, etc. To believe these things solely based on social media evidence would indeed be madness... Such a strategy would be picked apart by many people far less suspicious than you if they were to do so. I would fully expect them to investigate things further, and frankly, I'm surprised that you would allege such a thing. We will see.

Perhaps they have proof, but are waiting to piece things together with other countries and agencies. I suspect they want to ensure that when the evidence is pieced together, if indeed they have it, that it shows thigns beyond any reasonable doubt. Also, this social media line is an interesting one... after all social media is simple a platform to publish information. It is no different to a newspaper. All information that comes out ideally needs clear sourcing, but the limits of social media mean it is often left out. Just because something is published via social media, doesn't mean it should be afforded any more OR less credibility, until such time as sources are verified.

Well I'm not picking sides, and I've made my point. I'm also not a mod anymore (mores the frustration sometimes...) so people can ignore me and forum life goes on. And back on topic, I just hope there is some valuable information to come from the flight data recorders soon.

Here's an alternative, but very very welcome, angle: http://www.theage.com.au/world/jews-and-arabs-refuse-to-be-enemies-20140724-zw7q0.html

I realise it goes both ways, and you've been present on here long enough to know that every so often I feel the need to ask everyone to have a bit of tolerance and respect for alternative views, (which pretty much always fails). I addressed you to start with because (I think) you are intelligent enough to recognise that if you present views which are quite some way from the accepted norm, then you have to expect some quite pointed replies. If you dealt with those pointed replies better then you might have a better audience for your views.

pap, you are starting to come across like Saints George used to on the Climate Change thread... replying to every challenge with longwinded insults and put-downs, rather than building credibility by explaining your reasoning. I appreciate others don't always reply to your hypotheses with the same kind of respect, but surely you must recognise that by putting forward theories that you know are going to provoke a response, and you should be prepared better for that than to simply shout down with childish comments that add nothing and, IMO, make the thread unreadable. Further, if your "main interest on this site now lies in making the likes of [buctootim] and ainttooclever look bigger c**ts than you manage yourselves" then you'll quickly lose any respect people may have had for you. Present your conspiracies and your evidence, stand by it, defend it if you feel you need to, and debate the points, but if you plan on winning people over with your arguments, then drop all the personal rubbish. Whoever or whatever caused it, this loss of life was a tragic event and there is a lot of interest in what happened. If we have to disagree on potential causes etc, that's fine, but a bit more tolerance and respect wouldn't go amiss IMO, especially on something like this.