Saint86

Disappointing result but not that unexpected. Lots of young / inexperienced players vs one of the best attacks in world football - and it showed. Once the nerves set it they wobbled and gave away some soft goals. Concerning, and i don't think we have the players currently to play that formation. Djenpo, Valery, Bednarek, and Stephens. We can't be playing games vs the top 4 with 3 of those players starting in defence. Hopefully we can learn from that and make a few key additions (CB and ST) to go into the next ones. Still some signs of promise within it all. JWP, Lavia, and KWP had good games for me. Ultimately we'll have to bear with this side as they bed in. Lots of new / young faces, and last seasons' squad fillers around them just aren't up to standard. Could be a rocky start. Very unconvinced by the tactic - would much rather see a 4-2-3-1 etc.

Hall marks of the emirates game for Yoshida's debut. Horrendous defending this game. Isn't Selles a defensive mastermind?

Salisu doubly at fault for that. Shocking. One of the worst own goals you will ever see.

Wow. Right when we were getting back into the game...

Most of our issues stem from Benarek and Valery playing in a new look back 5 with a young keeper and djenpo at LWB... up against one of the best attacks in world football. Recipe for disaster as its basically 2 players that dither defensibly, and then one (dejenpo) that doesn't / can't defend... Results in a load of bad positioning and bad passing, with poor communication/confidence between them all, and ultimately a very nervy back 5 as a result. Second half hopefully better, and think we need to remember that this is a free swing ultimately. Spurs are going to be top 3 or 4 end of the season - and we all know our record opening day of the season, let along away to one of the best teams in the league!

Whats all this Coady chat on twitter, has there been any credible links in the media?

Genuinely surprised by the negativity on this thread lately! I think our squad is comfortably good enough to finish at least 15th. We've added good quality depth, and specifically players to suit the way Ralph wants us to play. Plus he's finally got some decent coaches behind him and on the touchline. If we get a quality striker we'll be looking for a top 10 finish as a good season. If we don't i still think we'll come somewhere from 12th-15th even with an average year. Am i on a different planet to everyone else? Reading some of these comments i feel like it 😨😅

Imagine we'd be open to selling anyone for the right price... Someone offers us £150m for JWP we'd be stark raving mental not to take it.

I don't agree. If every team is a "rival" in your world, then what is an actual rival called? There is a difference between other teams and rivals and there are some very clearly direct rivals even at this point in the season - man city and liverpool are rivals for the title. I suspect Chelsea/spurs/Arsenal will be rivals for the top 4 etc. I imagine most people would be considering fulham, forest, everton, and bournemouth as relegation rivals on current squad depth/quality?

We haven't been in a relegation scrap since Ralph's first half season, and this year we have been very active in the transfer market and strengthened the squad / tailored it for his style of play. Given that i don't have any anticipation for a relegation scrap. Forest shouldn't have been promoted given their squad last season. They have had to massively strengthen to be competitive in the prem, and whilst they've given it a good go, its hard to look past them as anything other than a team that will be fighting relegation - especially considering they'll have minimal squad depth. Conversely, all the people being positive on here surely don't think that us making 6 signings means we should be on a level with Forest?

If the club consider forest a rival then we are in trouble.

Neverton look to be finally going down. At best they are going to be right in the mix this season.

I've seen one poster (without naming) on here refer to it as "lucky" that KWP has adapted to LWB whilst criticising Ralph for forcing the switch on him. Which i personally think is very biased, and I would agree with you that there does seem to be a real bias on here (at times) re Ralph and him not being given credit where its due. Conversely, I would say he's improved several players during his time here - Not least JWP and KWP. Ultimately we're not sat here discussing a player's (who was superfluous to Tottenham) potential move to Chelsea for no reason. Similarly the improvement in JWP (and transfer links) are largely due to Ralph's coaching of him (which probably also saved his saints career).

If i were KWP in a world cup year, i wouldn't be going anywhere unless it offered first team football. His best chance of making the england squad is probably playing LWB at saints... that may not happen due to the other injuries, but he'll still be playing regularly and hopefully shining at saints. Equally he knows if he doesn't sign a new contract he'll likely be able to exit next summer. So i think its unlikely he'll be leaving for anywhere without first team football being offered.

Swap him? No chance. Whilst i see your broader point, swapping him is like saying Broja is a £40M-£50M player - which is how much i'd be asking for KWP. KWP has been a contender for player of the season the past 2 years and is not somewhere we should be looking to sell unless its for silly money.

Seriously hot prospect by all accounts. Shame we couldn't have got him (if the rumours we were even in for him were true). Apparently Chris Brady (also at fire) is meant to be mustard as well.

I agree. SAF hit his mercurial talents in the face with boots, and I doubt Clough was very accommodating either - and we all know Jose has had a particular management style throughout his career. Similary Pep and Klopp get what they want with their players, and if they don't play ball they get moved on. As for accommodating special talents, just look at the long list of managers that have failed at PSG because they prioritise accommodating players over the manager's wishes, and United have been plagued by that as well in recent years. I've personally always had the impression that the best managers are tactically astute/successful, and have a disciplined respectful no nonsense man management style, the type that set-out how it is and don't tolerate players stepping out of line, but that also praise and look after players that deliver. End of the day its a job and is about putting a professional framework in place that lets the team, manger, coaches etc. all work together to deliver. Second you start giving someone special treatment within that you're on a slippery slope.

Selling Che for £10m has to be a non story. It's less than we paid for him and we've developed him into a far better player than when he joined. He is a decent striker for us, and the only one who bullies defenders physically - which causes a real nuisance and helps us move the play and pressure into the oppo 3rd. Our best two strikers are Adams and Armstrong imo. And with aribo and Armstrong supporting them they'll cause problems. Doubly so with good wing back play. Letting either go without signing a top quality striker is an error IMO. We would be weakening our front line. It's doubtful the young kid from France is going to be the answer this season I'd say. If we want to raise funds - then start with players more on the periphery - redmond, Ely, 1x lyanco/stephens/Valery, diallo. Not our best 1st team striker!

Watched him intently at the game today, and in other appearances. He's a very powerful player - fast and well built. He'll suit a high line press with a sweeper keeper... But he's also not acting in the most intelligent/well drilled way from what I've seen so far. Made mistakes - particular when it's balls over the top that he has to deal with - I.e. letting the ball bounce with the attacker on him, and he was involved in a couple of instances of poor communication between cb's. His athletism helps him recover impressively, but not always. Both BK and salisu were extremely ponderous in possession today as well. Slow passing tempo! BK has a lot of potential and I think he'll get there and be a great player for us. But I'm not sure he's ready to face kane and son away at spurs.

Agreed.. He have a good assessment of how he performed and if anything excused any dissapointment that anyone could see.

Just seen us linked with werner for £45m in a fake rumour (I guess)... getting silly! 😂

Goes without saying that most people agree on the repeated experience point. We want players that are good enough and that will work well in the system - We appear to have been doing that. A large issue with players like Vestergard (as you mention), is that he was signed by a previous regime and is a slow and not particularly physical player. We then appointed ralph who wants a high line with pace, power, and fitness from the defenders. That was a club decision to change our style of play, but it meant that Vestergard (and others) were suddenly being asked to play a style of football that didn't suit their own attributes. And similarly with that, fans have grumbled (rightly or wrongly) that Ralph makes odd tactical decisions or plays players out of position etc. Stability in the manager has the primary benefit that they are allowed to build and shape a team over many seasons - and buy the players they want to implement their style of football. OFC, that relies on both good recruitment and a solid manager. But if you look at the best teams (say Jose's chelsea, or SAF's united, Pep's city - granted extreme examples) they've either maintained a style/manager, or allowed the new manager to build the squad he wants. Against that, clubs that totally change style of manager (and don't recruit well to support a new manager/style) tend to struggle - take Tottenham going from Poch to nuno to Jose... A better example maybe palace last season - changed manager to Viera and combined it with a significant squad overall to suit his style of player. Or maybe Everton - absolute car crash of managerial/style changes and scattergun recruitment - all with no plan. For us in this window - i don't think anyone can really argue that we have finally revamped the squad with the means and intention to back the manager's style. We haven't made compromises so far in terms of players signed, and we've done our business early rather than picking up scraps. The fan's are excited generally? And i guess that means we broadly believe that the manager is capable and that the recruitment is good - and that therefore this strategy is going to pay off with improvements in our competitiveness? But the debate for the first few months is going to be - have we actually done good business, and/or is this backing of the manager justified (that debate is for another thread!!) 😆

Do we need to have a support circle for you? You seem to have Kelvin issues? We can sit round the fire and discuss all the bad things he did to you if you'd like? (said in jest - I hope obviously!) But regardless, personally the guy was one of the key rocks of the promotion teams, and his decision to stay was one of the very first pieces of that jigsaw. First team keeper throughout two promotions and a Wembley winning cup run. All that after he turned down a guaranteed move to a premier league team 2 divisions higher to risk staying at financially adrift saints at the start of a very big rebuild - didn't he turn down / delay west ham before the takeover happened? And it wasn't just about first team football, he spoke many times throughout that period about being in local shops and seeing "save our saints" buckets and people collecting money to effectively pay his wages and save the club, and wanting to give something back. Sure he wasn't very good when it came to prem level keepers, but that isn't the point... and we all have many memories of key Kelvin moments - probably headed up by the Leeds game. He certainly deserves a key place in memories from that period imo - along with a couple of others that didn't quite make it all the way to the prem but played pivotal parts in our rise.

More than possible United get desperate and shove a wedge our way for JWP.

I think its a lazy assumption to assume it will benefit the top clubs. Its always been the case that you expect stronger squads to do better - regardless of whether they have no subs, 3, or 7 etc. Granted it may take a bit of an adjustment for teams to effectively recruit and adjust for the new use of squad depth, but i can't see that balance fundamentally changing. What it may allow, is for teams like us (with smaller squads), to better protect key players over busy periods. I.e. bring KWP/JWP/Livramento etc off on 80min if the points are in the bag. Which is an advantage to us over a longer season in terms of the relative worth of key players.