UpweySaint

Come on you know the point being made. It’s not a direct parallel clearly but two examples of where we’ve invested decent money on players who have looked good in lesser leagues for clubs who also have the odd run out in Europe. One developed into arguably one of the world’s best players and the other underwhelmed massively despite his ‘work against the ball’. All transfers are inevitably risks but this is exacerbated when a player has not played in the premier league or a ‘top’ league as you’re gambling on the player translating ability at a consistently higher level. Fwiw I think MOR may do well and ultimately look good value but Brighton have the scope to risk him not doing so - in our current position we don’t at £30mil especially when there are more glaring squad issues to resolve.

I don’t think they’re spending madly. Fees are on the high side but wages are likely realistic and with relegation wage drops. Much like us it’s hard to argue with the logic behind most of their signings- some fees feel a tad inflated. Either these players thrive and establish themselves as premier league players or they have a team very well equipped to bounce back.

I’m not sure it’s about us wanting to be seen to be clever. Based on resources alone and our recent record of poor decisions we can’t compete on an even playing field with many of our rivals. Inevitability we need to try to find value and at times take risks. Biljow’s injury record is clearly a concern but we are potentially getting a keeper with international pedigree, at a good age and for what may be (based on rumblings) a good price. I also like that he has a bit of shithousery about him - we have often been accused of being soft and not playing the dark arts as well as other teams - with Biljow, BBD and Stephens I think we will see a bit more on that as part of the culture of our team which to my mind is no bad thing.

I rate Broja but happy to be wrong. The point i’m making is they’ve signed several players we have been linked with over a few windows so we can actually see how they fare in a relegation threatened side. Much like is Brighton sign MOR we can see how he gets on in the prem.

Ipswich have picked up several players we’ve been linked with so while not a direct parallel it will give us a chance to compare on a here’s what you could have won bullseye style arrangement!

I would take JWP back in a heartbeat. I think he would excel under Martin if we can’t get MOR and he would certainly add character and experience to the group. The goal threat from free kicks also can’t be ignored. We know we won’t score loads so they could be a real difference maker. Loan with an option would suit us well and keep readies for a permanent keeper. I get the idea of loaning one but I think it doesn’t hurt to be ruthless. Get a potential no1 in - him and Macca can compete until Baz is back then he has genuine competition/somebody good to learn from orrrr could feasibly go on loan - he’s young enough that a year on loan after a long term injury isn’t the worst thing in the world.

Fair point. Likely the step up in class will see us punished more often when we do have lapses. Newcastle were ruthless with what was pretty much their only presentable (and presented) chance. Small margins.

I think you have to take the rough with the smooth. It has risks which are exacerbated by crap decision making from a goalkeeper who doesn’t excel with the ball at his feet. It also has positives - we scored a lot of goals last season by drawing the opposition onto us. See Arma’s play off winner as a good example. There are absolutely times when the short pass isn’t on and we need to be confident to play longer balls - variation helps keep other teams honest too - but Martin’s tactical approach is focused on bravery on the ball so don’t expect us to suddenly shift away from this. the frustration for me is the goal was easily avoidable and there were plenty of passing options (short or long) and you can’t really legislate for passing straight to one of only two oppo players anywhere near.

I would like one to give us the chance to mix up our build up play but arguably they wouldn’t be the best fit for our system. Presuming we play on the break a bit more this season a yard of pace may not hurt. Off the ball movement is massive for any forward in our set up. If (giant, whopping, huge IF) Stewart gets fits he offers a bit of a combination of physicality while not exactly being slow.

This is probably a fair summary. He has done fairly well for the England u21s which hints at potential. From what I’ve seen he is a decent finisher with a bit of pace. Not exactly a hulking centre forward but can hold off a defender.

Ornstein has us in for Cameron Archer - if it’s a buy or loan to buy I would be happy.

So that averages out at £4.75mil per transfer … skewed by the freebies but comparatively it helps illustrate a little the challenge we face.

Tino was a big one for me. He was highly rated at Chelsea and we could all see why from his early games - I was telling people we might have the next Gareth Bale! 😅 I was gutted to see him leave us so soon and think if he can stay fit he will be England’s right back within a few years (or could play further forward). Honourable mentions for Gabbiadini, Osvaldo and Ramirez. Caceres was an odd one too but felt like a coup - a fair bit of pedigree but his spell with us feels like a weird anomaly in his career and it never really happened.

Do you honestly believe that would have worked? What reason would O’Riley or his agent have had to jump into agreeing a move just because we agreed a fee with Celtic? Equally if you are Celtic and you know there are (potentially) several clubs interested some of whom are going to sell assets and have more money why wouldn’t you hold out and try to drive up bids? If we don’t get him it’s a shame but I don’t see it as a stick to beat the club with if he ultimately ends up elsewhere.

I can see the parallels but IMO Broja looked to have a higher ceiling and is in a position we are desperately short. Our current CB options are decent and could form an okay lower mid table prem defence without ABK. Personally if the price was sensible or we could agree a loan with options/contingency based on performances I would want us to take the punt on him. Is there a price at which you would feel Broja is worth a gamble or are you just not convinced?

It’s a fair point though the three you have named all have new contracts and have signed for us full well knowing relegation is a real possibility. You would hope wages would also have sizeable percentage drops too should we go down. I guess the difference is if we have to sell we are hopefully better placed to do so on our terms without contractual or financial pressures forcing our hand. If we take THB for example if he proves himself in the prem he becomes a £35-40mil player IMO. Minus a city cut we would still see some profit on him and being able to reinvent- the big trick is doing that well which is where we have gone awry for several years. I have posted similar before but my overarching view is we are doing sensible business in the window so far. There is more we would like/may do but it’s hard to argue with the likes of Yuki, Woods and Edwards for less than £15 million all in. If any of those three develops into a premier league level player (I think Woods is the least likely) then they are easily worth more than the £15 million alone. If we went down with a bit of fight I would feel more confident then when we came down at the end of 22/23 and I anticipate many would feel similar.

I’m curious what strengths you feel Mara has or is that more about potential? We signed him off the back on a decent-ish breakthrough in France and a good tournament (IIRC) and on the face of it wasn’t a bad signing but I’ve struggled to see what he’s about as a player. To me his finishing hasn’t stood out, I’m surprised how easily he seems to get muscled off the ball (he isn’t tiny) and he doesn’t have pace to write home about. The less said about the pen the better! Do take your broader point about players/systems and I think Charlie is a stellar example of that. I could see him flourishing and have a real soft spot for him but he doesn’t seem a good fit in our current system. He might have scope to develop his game to fit better but given our financial restrictions a good fee to put towards more ‘ready-made’ players might suit us in the here and now.

Just found £60million for Pedro Neto too. Their accountants must be bloody marvellous. Sure they’ll just sell some of their own assets to themselves again or something equally as dodgy. Watch this space for Chelsea FC selling lunar real estate to the totally unrelated Chalsee CF … Bugger me they’re an unlikely club! Hoping it all goes horribly wrong with Maresca and the yanks asset values plummet through the floor.

Certainly an upgrade though arguably a different profile of player to Smallbone. He’s got a fair amount of pedigree for a 23 year old and looks the sort who could kick on playing week in week out. I would be happy with us signing him on loan, loan with an option to buy or permanent if the budget is there.

Fair point. If we’re being pedantic Bazunu is injured and Larios’ development has been hampered by long term injury which we couldn’t foresee. Edozie may start. Mara had a good youth tournament and l can see why we punted on him but he clearly isn’t meeting expectations (and I don’t think he will!) The broad point that we’ve spent our money poorly is fair though. Sulemana was money spaffed up the wall in an attempt to secure the next Mane. I still think Edozie may come good and Alcarez is a talented player but not suited to our system. Bazunu I get the stick he gets but still think he is one worth persevering with though preferably as a no2 with an experienced and capable no1 to learn from and push. Ultimately it’s about balance. Gambling on potential isn’t a bad idea for a club of our size but when the foundations of the club/squad are so shaky it falls apart. Our most successful periods have seen young talent bedded in to settled teams with experience and quality through the side. Time will tell but it feels like Sports Republic have learnt this lesson even if we’re still struggling with the legacy of previous poor decisions.

Agreed on the loans. Chelsea have 200 players, Ramsdale, Carvalho may end up as loans or loan to buy type deals should either happen, City have some real quality - Lewis and McAtee for example, Morton at Liverpool was previously linked (possible loan or loan with an option perhaps), Doaks and Clarke have also had a mention though I can’t say I’m too fussed about either of them …

Fair enough. I can see the draw of Bournemouth especially if they give him a reasonable sense of confidence he will be there no1 - if not we may be in with a shout. O’Riley and Carvalho may not happen but both seem like the right sort of players to target. Hopefully we have a longer list, I’m sure there is value to had in Europe - the Dutch market seems to be undervalued at times and the money issues in France should create some opportunities (it looks like we tried for the Metz player). It is a bit gutting that Bournemouth and Brighton are in such better places than us but a few good windows and a bit of luck and we can find ourselves in their shoes to my mind.

Do you have a source? I would be surprised as Neto has been pretty solid for them.

They can look at selling them for whatever they like but doesn’t mean anybody is paying what they want. £15mil with add ons has been rejected but it’s not unreasonable as a starting bid. Fwiw I like Carvalho and think he could do well for us.

We spent about £35 mil and Downes and THB for starters. We’re not exactly scraping the barrel but there will be limits. It sounds like we’re still trying for others too and that’s without any confirmed outgoings of any note.