Wes Tender

I have told you many, many times before. Stop bleating and put me on ignore. See, another short post and to the point. PS "turn everyone asleep" - poor grammar.

Yes, apparently the UK trade with the EU is shown as 16 times the size of Japan's, whereas it should be only four times bigger. It must be because we are very close to the EU, whereas Japan is on the other side of the World, so the Japan dot looks so much smaller because it is much further away.

You really are a piece of work, aren't you?

Yes, I think so too. They seem to think that we still have the incompetent negotiating team of May and Robbins in charge and that we will fold at the last minute because they mistakenly believe us to bluffing when we say that we will leave with no deal if we don't get a FTA we are happy with. They remind me of the Japanese soldiers deep in he jungle who haven't realised that the war is over. Chief among the remoaners on here who doesn't accept that our position has improved immeasurably, is Gavyn, who diminishes the gravity of his pronouncements by littering them with playground level insults. He is full of opinion as to what we want out of the negotiations and indeed what we don't want, as if he is still as close to the government inner circles as he was in the Blair era. I very much doubt that he is, so he is just expressing opinions based on listening to the views of others who he believes have some inside knowledge, which is what we do on the other side. Boris has apparently painted himself into a corner by stating that the deadline will not be extended beyond 31st December, is one point of view. The other is that Boris has painted the EU into a corner. The EU has stipulated its conditions, so have we. The ball is in their court, and for the first time we have a very strong hand. If the EU fail to recognise that, then more fool them. This is the only really relevant part of Gavyn's little diatribe above. It is futile raking over old coals from during May's time in office, as the whole political landscape has changed since then and the sooner the EU recognise that, the sooner a mutually beneficial solution can be agreed.

That's very sensible. How about Gavyn? What do you reckon, Norway style deal a possibility? Any takers apart from Timmy?

You appear to have missed me asking for your opinion on whether you thought it likely whether we would be leaving the EU as part of a Norway style deal. What do you reckon? I expect that you voted to remain in the referendum, didn't vote Conservative in the recent election, may have even thought that the ERM was a good idea all those years ago. If so, there isn't much you have got right, is there?

You must be thinking of somebody else, Gavyn. I've always been for leaving the EU since Maastricht, as I've said many times before. I've always wanted to leave the SM and the CU, so that we could take back control of our borders, our money, our laws and our trade, to put it into the well employed nutshell phrase. The situation regarding the German Car makers and other goods manufactured by them, the French agricultural products they sell to our consumers, ditto the main exports to us from other EU countries, they will naturally wish to continue selling to us. Up until recently, the EU member states, in particular the Germans, have maintained a solidarity of purpose, giving the impression that the unity of their Union is more important than the prosperity of individual industries. That facade is beginning to show cracks as it becomes clear that Boris and Frost aren't as hopeless in negotiations as May and Robbins, and there is no longer a fifth column available to abet them in the HoC any more, but instead a massive mandate to get Brexit done. I linked to an interesting article earlier that discussed these cracks. It said:- The number of other snippets reporting cracks in the EU's unity, whether it be MEPs' dissent towards the EU's stance against us, other member states growing increasingly unhappy about their own membership, concerns about how they will manage their budget without our contributions, these things are increasing to be reported on a daily basis as time grows shorter to the end of the year. The EU think that we will blink first before then. Time for Boris to tell them that we aren't coming to the table for talks until they stop making these stupid demands of theirs.

We've moved on rather a lot in the past few months, in case you hadn't noticed. The House has now been cleansed of the idiots who would deliberately stymie our negotiating position by telling the other party that no matter what happened, we would not leave unless we had negotiated a deal. At the same time, gone are large numbers of those who would have been content with continuing to pay into the EU coffers, accept free movement of people, and the jurisdiction of EU law over our own, all required by the Norway option. Go ahead and believe that it might still come about, but you look like a complete fool for doing so. Anybody else on here who thinks that we might yet go for the Norway option? Tamesaint? Gavyn?

Naturally you will attempt to put off admitting that you got the outcome badly wrong for as long as possible. You obviously miss the irony accusing me of desperation, when I expect that there is nobody else on here who believes for one second that we will end up with the Norway option. Yet you are prepared to hold out a forlorn hope that it might just still happen, so your credibility as a forecaster is therefore shot to pieces.

http://www.eurointelligence.com/public/briefings/2020-02-18.html Another interesting article regarding the current sabre-rattling between us and the EU, level playing fields, no deal etc. Why the EU need to be disabused of any feeling that we could be bluffing over our willingness to accept no deal, rather than one that surrenders to Barnier's level playing field anchored in EU law.

The bet wasn't about WTO though, was it? It was about you being willing to put money on us doing a Norway style deal. Are you man enough to admit that you got that wrong and be prepared to do the honourable thing and pay the £50 to benefit a charity?

You're wrong. There was no reason to mention it before, was there? It has only entered the conversation recently by Boris and Frost. When are you going to cough up the £50 for charity because we aren't going to have a Norway style deal, Timmy? Surely you cannot believe that there is a snowball's chance in hell of it happening now? You be a good boy and pay it now, and if incredibly it does come about, I'll double it. Fair enough?

The response from our chief negotiator, David Frost:- Australian basic international terms it is then. Simples. Over to you Barnier. Happy with that?

No, why would I be, Gavyn? You're far the more likely candidate. One only has to look at the sort of stuff you post, like this:- Then add the catalogue of abuse you hurl at any Brexiteer who dares to argue against your hubristic opinions on an almost daily basis, and it isn't difficult to imagine you believing that eugenics would have been a good idea for many who voted to leave your beloved EU. You clearly despise them. You're halfway there already.

Also celebrating the one year anniversary of the formation of TIGers, there is a huge vote of thanks from Guido for the significant part that they played in helping to get a proper Brexit across the line. I had almost forgotten that the vote to keep us within the CU had come within just three votes of succeeding. Thank God that there were enough remoaners like these whose preference was for having Brexit stopped altogether via either a revocation vote or a second "people's vote" https://order-order.com/2020/02/18/thank-tiggers-saving-britain/

I can tell by your emoji that you are very angry.

Probably a better idea for you to read the thoughts and strategy of the UK's negotiator in the trade deal talks, rather than sniping at individuals on a football club forum to massage your overblown ego. Thank God we've got a proper leaver at the forefront, rather than than the grossly incompetent remoaners, May and Robbins. https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/full-text-top-uk-brexit-negotiator-david-frost-on-his-plans-for-an-eu-trade-deal/

Good morning Gavyn. As usual, I have to disabuse you of your fantasy notion that I am angry somehow about the current state of affairs regarding our departure from the failing EU project. What a pity that I can't demonstrate my deep happiness by way of a happy emoji, lest some dullard mistakenly believes it means I am angry. I can feel that you are deeply hurt by the turn of events during the past three and a half years, finding yourself on the wrong side of history, alongside the others of your ilk, the so-called establishment experts of project fear. It must have been extremely galling to find that the plebs decided that they would be prepared to take their chances that the shrill establishment forecasts of economic doom and disaster were a price worth paying for the return of our ability to run our own affairs as an independent sovereign nation once more. And of course, it must be equally galling to you as a Blairite Champagne Socialist to find your beloved party lurching to the far left and then being decimated by its biggest ever defeat by the Tories. So I am not surprised that you are lashing out with the petty insults once more. I can sense your hurt. We will either get a Canada style trade deal or WTO. I have consistently thought that the Canada option was what would be best for us, but am completely content with either.

Starting with a blank sheet of paper is easier than making some amendments to a long-standing arrangement? Our standards on many work and environmental regulations are already better than those in the EU, so perhaps we should agree to drop them to their level. Johnson has been clear about what he wants. He doesn't want a deal with the existing alignment, he just wants a non-tariff trade deal such as Canada/Japan/S/Korea, so there is clarity sbout what the parameters for the negotiations will be. The EU should stop wasting valuable time p*ssing up the wall with talk about level playing fields; we don't want one. If the French say that trade negotiations cannot start until we accede to the EU being able to continue plundering our coastal waters as before, then we should say OK, no point in discussing anything further, WTO it is. That then allows us nine and a half months to make those arrangements on that basis, much of which has already been planned for the past year or two. When as you say the timescale is incredibly short, one wonders why the French in particular are putting a brake on the negotiations even starting until fisheries access is agreed. It's almost as if they don't want a trade deal, isn't it? Either that, or they naively imagine that we will cave in like the Vicar's daughter and Robbins did and extend the deadline for another year or two. Boy, do they have a shock coming their way!

You fail to recognise the difference between the situation between Canada, Japan, Korea and us. Neither of them had any previous trade deals with the EU, so had to start the negotiations from scratch. We begin from a position of total alignment having been a member of the EEC/EU since 1973. The end of June deadline is the EU's only. We have already told them to stuff their extension. There are nine and a half months until the end of December. The EU had notice that we were leaving since June 24th 2016, nearly four years ago. Presumably you believe that neither the EU nor the UK has made any plans to prepare for that deadline. We are not extending the deadline, so unless the EU pulls their finger out before the end of the year, then WTO it is. So you don't think a trade deal within that time it is feasible, great, WTO it is then. I'm entirely happy with that. Let's keep the £40 billion and bring about the situation that petrifies them, a major successful trading competitor right on their doorstep. We aren't asking for anything that hasn't been granted to those other countries. Does it take longer to arrange a similar deal that has been negotiated several times before, or less time? Do any of them pay anything into the EU coffers for their trade deals? Any ECJ jurisdiction over their courts? Any free movement of EU citizens into their countries? Access to their fishery grounds? No, I thought not. The ball is in their court. We will soon see how quickly they can move when they have to.

It's gone very quiet on here regarding the transition/implementation period and the possible developments prior to us leaving either with a trade deal with the EU, or without one on WTO terms, (or what Boris calls the Australia arrangement). Recently the EU's MEPs have voted on their vision for our future relationship together, wishing to have an associate arrangement, we being tied as tightly as possible to them by their rules and regulations, what they would call a level playing field. As well as that, they would like us to grant them similar rights to continue fishing our territorial waters, continued freedom of movement and continued jurisdiction of the ECJ. Boris has already indicated that we will refuse to accept alignment to all of their rules and regulations, that we should be free to decide what we keep and what to get rid of. The French are naturally being difficult, as is their wont. Their Foreign Minister has just expressed the opinion that the trade discussions will tear us both apart, that there isn't enough time to get them sorted before the 31st December. Macron has also stated that trade talks cannot commence until we agree that the EU can continue their access to our fishing grounds on much the same basis as before, and they offer concessions to our financial markets access as a sweetener. These things need to be settled by the end of June, the time limit by which any request for an extension of the transition period can be agreed. Boris has already stated categorically that there will be no extension to the 31st December deadline, that if a deal isn't in place by then, we are out on WTO terms. There are two or three other categorical statements that he should make at this stage of the proceedings. Our coastal waters will be under our total control and any access to them by EU boats will be strictly under our terms. Gibraltar is not to be treated as a separate entity in the talks. We will leave the single market and the customs union, so everything connected to them both will no longer apply, therefore no freedom of movement, no jurisdiction of the ECJ. He has already made it clear that as the EU does substantially more trade with us than it does with Japan, Canada and Korea, the suggestion from the EU that we ought to somehow accept a worse trade deal than theirs, is plainly ludicrous. Boris having indicated that we would be content with a similar type of trade deal, what more needs to be said? Until the EU is given a take it or leave it ultimatum, they will continue to delude themselves that we will not hold our nerve and accept all sorts of concessions in order to get as close a deal as possible. It doesn't help that some remoaner ex-cabinet minister suggests that Boris will act tough and then fold at the last minute when faced with being the PM to crash the economy by leaving with a cliff edge no deal. Enough of these timid weasel remoaners with their project fear predictions! Tell the EU that as we won't be extending the transition period, signing away our fishing grounds access, accepting their rules and regulations, that Gibraltar isn't on the table, that we will only accept a similar deal to Canada/Japan/Korea, they might as well use the time between now and the end of June constructively, and work towards getting that trade deal done.

Agree with all of this. We looked promising in spells when Boufal was pulling the strings, but when he went off injured we lacked imagination and creativity. Like you, this p*ssing about at the back does my head in, as does the lack of urgency during the last quarter of an hour when we are chasing the match. When Boufal went off, I thought that Djenepo would mean more of the same, but like the Redmond of old before he became more direct in his attacking play, Djenepo held up play and then passed backwards, or cut in to midfield, instead of making attacking runs up the wing to get the ball behind the Burnley defence. With Redmond, there is an understanding between him and Bertrand and they often overlap to good effect, but Bertrand and Djenepo had no connection at all. The Burnley first goal was a shocker by both Ings and McCarthy. Ings did well to get us level, but when Burnley went ahead, we had neither the imagination nor the inclination to respond positively. God only knows why Vestergaard got the nod ahead of Bednarek. A couple of little cameos about Ings; His running to close down their player on the touchline, forcing a throw in, was impressive and summed up his total commitment. He often makes these runs to rush the goalkeeper too. And then when we were pressing high in the Burnley defence, he made a lovely pass through their lines which J W-P totally misread, the ball going out for a goal kick. I thought that J W-P was one of our more intelligent players,so he needs to be on the same wavelength as our strikers after all the time they have played together. As an aside, the referee was very poor. Burnley players pushed our players in the back several times and went unpunished, but when Long did it, it was a foul. A bit of consistency would be nice.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/lets-not-forget-the-unintentional-heroes-of-brexit/amp/ Even though we have now left the EU, this Brexit thread rumbles on for some reason. So it seems pertinent to reflect on how it all came about that we managed to leave, despite the best efforts of the remoaner establishment to thwart it. I heartily echo the sentiments of this article, thanking all those remoaners for the part they played in bringing it all about, although naturally they are all kicking themselves now for the wrong decisions they made, the "friendly fire" against their own side. Whether the eventual outcome was just as the result of happy good fortune, or whether there had been an element of strategic war-gaming, who knows? However it all came about, the end result really couldn't have been any better than any of the other alternatives that might have occurred. For me, the most credit goes to the incompetent vicar's daughter, who allied with the equally useless Ollie Robbins, allowed Barnier and the EU to dictate the terms of our proposed colonial vassalage, making the defeat of her Withdrawal Agreement in the House the biggest in Parliamentary history. With the benefit of hindsight, the remoaners should have bitten her hand off for that deal, allowing the prospect of rejoining once it was recognised how bad it would have been for us. Rejoining will not be looked at for a couple of decades now, when the EU in its current form will probably no longer exist. Who do others give the prize to for the part they played in our successful exit from the EU?

A great way to start the week with a smile on my face.

The last two or three episodes of Question Time have been a lot less confrontational now too. Brexit is no longer the burning issue that it was before the General Election when the Parliamentary arithmetic allowed all sorts of shenanigans to thwart it. It is a pity that on here the remoaners attempt to keep the pot boiling, fighting long lost battles, when the exercise is now completely pointless.