sadoldgit

I don’t disagree with your point about focus being on posters, but this has been going on for years sadly and, let’s be honest, starts from those of a far right or “anti woke” persuasion most of the time I didn’t catch the date, but I just heard that their was a Pro Brexit March a few years ago London on Armistice Day that ended with speeches in Trafalgar Square. I am guessing that Tommy Robinson, his fellow brown shirts and all those who are wringing their hands over today’s March in support if a ceasefire in Gaza probably didn’t kick off about that one? With today’s violence against the police, surely the Home Secretary has to take a lot of responsibility for the hate she has stirred up against the very people she is a government minister for and must now be removed from office.

Why was the last paragraph unnecessary? I have written serious posts about this which certain posters add laughing emojis to. And it not about looking good Whelk, it is about having some very basic levels of humanity. It looks like Tommy Robinson and his thugs have taken Braverman’s bait and are causing trouble in London today. Absolutely no surprise there.

It is good to see a leader from the West growing a pair and calling for an end to the butchery. Hopefully it will encourage a few more to speak out, not that it will make any difference. Too many people are afraid of being labelled antisemites if they don’t continue to support the bombings (Keir Starmer, how many more women and children have to die before you finally say that enough is enough?). Clearly I have missed the joke but those of you who like to use the laughing emojis on posts calling for an end to the killing and destruction, knock yourselves out again.

I have heard this from other vets and also listened to some who feel that is right for the march to go ahead as it uses a different route and is timed not to coincide with the cenotaph activities. It is a hard call and I don’t think there is any right or wrong, just different opinions. Listening to one of the organisers of the march he makes the point that the bombs are still falling and will not stop for our armistice and Remembrance ceremonies. The big concern now is that there are groups who are clearly desperate to cause trouble at the march to prove Braverman right and the Met wrong for allowing it to go ahead. There should be room in this country for people to commemorate the fallen in both world wars and also to call for the end of bombing of civilians in the latest Israeli/Palestine conflict in peace and without hindrance for those with negative agendas. As for being called a xenophobe, considering I have been called out for posting against racism for years on this forum that is bizarre and a bit rich coming from you with your posting history Batman.

Yesterday Channel 4 news ran a filmed report about a Palestinian guy with special needs. He was with a crowd of people throwing stones at some armed Israelis who were about 70 metres away. They fired a couple of warning shots and the crowd dispersed, apart from this guy. He was now on his own and threw two more stones. You could tell by the way he threw them that he was physically impaired. The stones fell well short of their target. One of the Israelis dropped to his knee and shot him through the neck. He died on the spot. Yet another senseless killing of a perfectly innocent civilian of which there now have been tens of thousands over the last month, including those killed by Hamas. People, including many Jewish people, are marching tomorrow, as they have been for the last three weeks, to say enough is enough and are calling to end these atrocities. Why anybody would have a problem with that is down to them but sadly a bunch of far right thugs will see it as an opportunity to give some “snowflakes” a kicking and to prove Braverman (who has been stoking up the hate temperature all week) right. The vast majority of the marchers are not Hamas supporters nor are they antisemites, they just want the killing to stop on both sides of the conflict and moves to be made to find a peaceful solution to the problem that has been festering for decades. Suella Braverman doesn’t want that and has been using her position of Home Secretary to stoke up division. Tommy Robinson doesn’t want that and has been using his recently reinstated X account to drum up hate again. These people clearly want violence to break out on the march on Saturday as it suits their purposes. As has been said several times elsewhere this week, if you can’t march in support of an armistice on Armistice Day, when can you? The only people who have a problem with this are hate filled far right thugs who hate peace almost as much as they hate Muslims. The same people who say that the march should be banned because Jewish people are afraid to leave their homes, completely ignoring the fact that Muslims have been having the same problems too. Why is it so difficult for some people to get their head around the concept that it is entirely possible to be sickened by the Hamas atrocities as it is by the constant bombing of Palestinian civilians and not be antisemitic? Well we know why don’t we. When you are losing an argument the default position is to label the other an antisemite and, all of a sudden, you win. As has been said right from the start, there are no people in white hats here. Hamas are the bad guys. Netanyahu and his cronies are the bad guys and the people paying the price are the innocent Israelis and Palestinians who just want to get on with their lives in peace.

No surprise. No surprise who will support him on here either. It has been made very clear that the march will go nowhere near the cenotaph yet these brave boys will be there anyway to defend something that doesn’t need defending. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/far-right-groups-palestine-march-london-b2445029.html

Ambulances bombed outside a hospital. I will save you the trouble hypo. 😂

Really? I really don’t expect it to happen which is not to say that it shouldn’t. Also I don’t expect those of you who hate Muslims and spend their days plastering laughing emojis on posts sympathising with their plight to give a damn about the thousands of innocent women and children being blown to bits. Odd that no matter how many times you denounce Hamas as a bunch of murderous scumbags who deserve all they get, as soon as you say anything critical of the Israelis you immediately become a Hamas sympathiser and antisemite. As for poppygate, no one mentioned the fact that Sunak wasn’t wearing a poppy whilst blowing smoke up Musk’s arse yesterday. Why would Muslims be insulted by Starmer wearing a poppy when so many of them fought and gave their lives for us in previous conflicts? Just goes to show how little the right wing media have when that is the best they can do (along with the countless days the Mail spent talking about Starmer’s curry during lockdown on the front page). Sad that they didn’t pick up on the point that Sunak seemed far more animated and interested when sucking up to Musk about AI than he ever does when talking about dealing with the problems of getting this country back on its feet.

When Netanyahu is finally brought before The Hague to answer for the allegations of war crimes carried out at his behest, he might take some comfort in the fact that hypochondriac, Duckhunter and Weston will all be in the gallery supporting him. I’m not sure “but Hamas are the only bad guys here” will work as much of a defence there though no matter how often they trot that rot out here. How does two wrongs make a right work again? https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

But there is only one bunch of bad guys here! 🙄 Apparently this is a direct quote from the Israeli Minister of Heritage, Amichai Eliyahu. ”North Gaza is more beautiful than ever. Blowing up everything is amazing. When finished we will hand over the lands of Gaza to soldiers who lived in Gush Katif”. Also Amnesty International has verified that the IDF has used white phosphorus against civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. When this was originally put to the IDF they denied it. I realise that by posting these I am someone claiming that Hamas aren’t so bad after all.

It really isn’t that hard to understand is it? If Hamas is so intent on killing Jewish people, why aren’t they going after the softer targets in Jewish communities in other countries? If that is their sole aim they really aren’t making a very good job of it are they? This is about land.

I find it hard to understand how anyone could find the idea of moving over 2 million people or more from their homeland funny but we have a poster that does. Also how hard is it to understand that if you call out the actions of both Hamas and the Israeli government, call for a ceasefire and the need to work towards a peaceful settlement that will lead to compromises from both sides and a two state solution that provides security for both the Israelis and Palestinians is not taking sides? Fortunately the majority of posters on this thread understand what is being said and don’t feel the need to try inject opinions of others which don’t actually exist. As for the rest of you, you know who you are.

Just read elsewhere that Israel is trying to bribe Egypt to take the Gaza Palestinians into the Sinai by paying off a huge international debt? If true you can just imagine the outage if it was suggested that Israelis should leave their homes and start again in the Sinai desert! A great deal of the seed cause of this conflict comes from the forced displacement of both current Israelis and Palestinians. Just unbelievable. What next, clear out the remaining Palestinians from the West Bank?

The few people who go to these marches with extreme views are shameful. But they are only a few amongst tens of thousands. You seem to have a great deal of sympathy for the Jewish population of this country who get caught up in the backlash from this conflict but zero sympathy for Muslims in the same position. I recall on another thread when I said that it was unfair that normal, peaceful Muslims were getting flak because of the terrorist activities your response was that they are all complicit because they weren’t going to the police with information about the attacks! Do you think that ISIS, Hamas etc have some huge WhatsApp group with every Muslim informing them of their activities? These are innocent people caught up in a dreadful situation, just like it is for the Jewish population in the UK. As for your point about the Palestinians voting in Hamas, you really do need to educate yourself. There hasn’t been an election in Gaza since 2006 and given the demographics hundreds of thousands of the inhabitants of Gaza now would have been below voting age then. I see that you used a laughing emoji on my post that stated that some people here believe that an innocent Jewish life is worth more than an innocent Muslim life. One of those people would be you. You are becoming this threads version of Ben-Gvir.

We have seen it in Parliament, in the media, here, everywhere. No one gives a damn about Islamophobes but get labelled as an antisemite and you are in trouble, you can even lose your livelihood over it. An ex PM made Islamophobic remarks and it was laughed off by many. We live in a strange world where you can condemn the murderous acts of a bunch or terrorists and also those carried out as revenge and still get labelled as an antisemite. I have been following this on other forums too and it is evident that there are people out there who think that the lives of innocent Jewish people are worth more than the lives of innocent Muslims. No doubt by writing these words those who believe this will immediately label the words as antisemitic too. For those who the words of Suella Braverman are aimed at, your argument really doesn’t stand up unless your hatred of Muslims is so great you can’t see the wood for the trees.

Exactly. But as said, the Israelis don’t care what he, Sunak, the EU or anybody says, they will do exactly what they want to do as they have done for years with impunity. They have the backing of the most powerful nation on earth and they ride roughshod over international rules and conventions. The international community has allowed this situation to fester and has allowed it to get out of hand, but that is the basic problem, too many people are scared of calling Israeli actions out when they go too far. Time and again over the last few weeks people who have called out the Hamas attack as abhorrent have also been accused of siding against Israel because they have condemned the mass killing of Palestinian civilians. It has been stated several times, but all Israel are doing at the moment is stoking up the conflict for future generations and guaranteeing more events like 7/10 down the line. We don’t tolerate murderous attacks by extremist groups, nor should we. But state terrorism is no different.

It hasn’t died a death. The New York Times reported last week that the video the Israelis used to show that it was a misfiring rocket from Hamas was well away from the site of the hospital. There seems no absolute proof what caused it yet so that is probably why the story is on the back burner. That and the fact that thousands of innocent people have died in air strikes and ground offensives since so it is now just one of many incidents of innocent people being killed. I appreciate that you dislike Muslims intensely, but perhaps don’t be so eager to try and play down the multiple killings every day?

The BBC have reported that the Israelis have cut off a road leading to south Gaza from the north with tanks and armoured vehicles. A car was making a three point turn to go back and it was fired on by a tank, killing the family inside.

To be fair I don’t think there are many partisan posters on this thread. Most of us understand that the issues are complex, that the issues have been boiling over for decades and that there are no quick fixes. I think that we also understand that there have to be huge compromises made on both sides for this ever to be resolved. This is why politicians need to stop taking sides and look at bringing pressure on all those who can make a difference to work towards firstly a meaningful ceasefire and then towards ways of finding a peaceful solution that works for all. This has nothing to do with antisemitism or being pro Hamas, but everything to do with recognising that both sides have a right to exist in peace wherever final boundary lines are drawn. Sadly it seems almost impossible at the moment to take a moderate, centrist position without being labelled a supporter of one side or the other. Good to see more wise, rational voices pointing out the obvious though. Also it is worth pointing out that if you listen to moderate Muslims, the chant “from the river to the sea” is all about ending the oppression of the Palestinians and has nothing to do with wiping Israel off of the map. I think even us “simpletons” understand that it has been hijacked by Hamas and that those chanting it on London rallies are using it in a completely different context.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/200-held-as-jewish-group-shuts-nycs-grand-central-calling-for-gaza-ceasefire/amp/ Appaling that we abstained in the UN vote for a humanitarian ceasefire. At least these people have the balls and the decency to stand up against the butchery of innocents.

Boris Johnson is to have his own show on GB News and will be covering next years elections on it. What a shock 🙄

You can really be a deeply unpleasant individual at times. Why would anyone revel in what has been going on over the last 3 weeks? What is sanctimonious about calling out the killing of innocent people (whichever side of the divide they are from)? What is sanctimonious about the wanting of a ceasefire and more work to be done to find a long lasting peaceful solution to this interminable conflict? If it makes you feel better to make silly jokes about massacres, knock yourself out. But I’d rather be sanctimonious than someone who thinks it is appropriate to make light of what is turning into genocide. Netanyahu has now given his forces permission to use live rounds against Israelis who protest against his policies. Feel free to make jokes about belt buckles when the Israelis start killing their own.

Perhaps you and Whelk should work through your belt buckle fetishes too? 😉 Still, if you can’t have a good old chuckle on a thread about the daily killing of innocent people, what is the world coming to buddy, eh?

Ah, bless. And there was me thinking that you didn’t have a sense of humour. Good to see that you can still laugh at yourself even when you lose the argument.

Apparently the Qur’an says nothing about having 72 virgins if you martyr yourself. There is a vague reference to something like that in some Hadiths but I think it is some b/s that we have been fed. As said before, it has more to do with them being prepared to die for a cause, much like the Japanese in WW2. The Met said there was a spike in recorded hate crimes after 7/10. In 2022 there were 15 recorded antisemitic offences between 1st and 18th October. In 2023 they recorded 218. For Islamophobic offences for the same period it was 42 in 2022 and 103 in 2023. This article by Israeli historian Raz Segal will probably ruffle a few feathers, but we really need to allow this stuff to be discussed if we agree with it or not. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/24/israel-gaza-palestinians-holocaust