Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 wowzers.... how odd is it that we are the financial power houses in a division..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 (edited) See what happens in January and the summer before you get too excited, I am hopeful though Edited 29 November, 2009 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 We have spent 1.5 million. 23 L1 sides combined = 910k! Amazing! Thedelldays is spot on - We are Man City of L1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 (edited) We have spent 1.5 million. 23 L1 sides combined = 910k! Amazing! Thedelldays is spot on - We are Man City of L1 More than £1.5m Lambert fee is rising to £1.5m, Hammond £400k, Papa Waigo would have included a big loan fee as it is with a view to buy, free transfers such as Jaidi, Murty, Harding etc would have required big signing on fees and also tying Davis to a new deal. So easily over £2m Edited 29 November, 2009 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 plus maintaining the cost of the wages for a big squad and having 2 ex league 1 managers on the coaching staff.. we should walk this league next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Nick Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 But how much did we receive from player sales this summer? Probably more than £1.5m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 But how much did we receive from player sales this summer? Probably more than £1.5m. matters not....that was used to try and save the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 But how much did we receive from player sales this summer? Probably more than £1.5m. Most L1 sides lose players to other clubs - not all (any) spend more than the whole league combined. We should be doing better this season - absolutely no excuses for next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 But how much did we receive from player sales this summer? Probably more than £1.5m. All of that was before the takeover so irrelevant as that money was used to pay creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 I thought of this at the start of the season, but I knew we wouldn't go straight back up. Just like Man City aren't going to win the League for a few years yet. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant thing to be a financial power house as TDD put it, and he's right. It's so nice not to have to worry about all the mismanagement and financial worries happening in the background. Bring on January transfer window?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 What a turn around. We could not even compete with many League 1 clubs last season. Reminds me of when Pompey got promoted, what little money they did have then, was a kings ransom in comparison to other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 indeed..I fully expect promotion to the CCC by the end of next season.. anything else will be, quite frankly, FAILURE I think we will do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Not really. Its not just about flashing the cash. If so there are lots of better precedents and analogies. Man City raised so many eyebrows because they were not a top 4 club but were able to buy established players from the bigger or better clubs - barry, toure, adebayor, tevez etc- a real statement of intent. That's like us raiding Leeds, Norwich, Charlton etc and skimming their cream. So far we've only bought Lambert who was at at team with frankly limited ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Not really. Its not just about flashing the cash. If so there are lots of better precedents and analogies. Man City raised so many eyebrows because they were not a top 4 club but were able to buy established players from the bigger or better clubs - barry, toure, adebayor, tevez etc- a real statement of intent. That's like us raiding Leeds, Norwich, Charlton etc and skimming their cream. So far we've only bought Lambert who was at at team with frankly limited ambitions. i meant we are the man city in the sense we are big spenders....VERY big spenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 I thought of this at the start of the season, but I knew we wouldn't go straight back up. Just like Man City aren't going to win the League for a few years yet. Don't get me wrong, it's a brilliant thing to be a financial power house as TDD put it, and he's right. It's so nice not to have to worry about all the mismanagement and financial worries happening in the background. Bring on January transfer window?? Similarities to Man City but also some big differences....... Man City spent money to bring the squad to a comparative standard to allow them to compete with the top 6-8 sides in the Prem. We already had a better team than most in L1 and then spent more than the other 23 combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Not really. Its not just about flashing the cash. If so there are lots of better precedents and analogies. Man City raised so many eyebrows because they were not a top 4 club but were able to buy established players from the bigger or better clubs - barry, toure, adebayor, tevez etc- a real statement of intent. That's like us raiding Leeds, Norwich, Charlton etc and skimming their cream. So far we've only bought Lambert who was at at team with frankly limited ambitions. Hammond was 'skimmed' from Colchester who were top (now 3rd) and Lambert signed from BR who were 4th and now 8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Most L1 sides lose players to other clubs - not all (any) spend more than the whole league combined. We should be doing better this season - absolutely no excuses for next! We are doing better - better than we were at the start of the season, and it's difficult to see how we could be doing much better than we are at the moment. If you are referring to our league position, then there's a very good reason for that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 We are doing better - better than we were at the start of the season, and it's difficult to see how we could be doing much better than we are at the moment. If you are referring to our league position, then there's a very good reason for that ... I agree - 'The Reason': We were poor in the opening 10 games. That however is a discussion for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Similarities to Man City but also some big differences....... Man City spent money to bring the squad to a comparative standard to allow them to compete with the top 6-8 sides in the Prem. We already had a better team than most in L1 and then spent more than the other 23 combined. Yeah that is true, and a good point. I think that we'll spend even more in January too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Yeah that is true, and a good point. I think that we'll spend even more in January too.. Lets hope so! Sign a couple more like Lambert and we really will have a great side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Similarities to Man City but also some big differences....... Man City spent money to bring the squad to a comparative standard to allow them to compete with the top 6-8 sides in the Prem. We already had a better team than most in L1 and then spent more than the other 23 combined. Really? Lloyd James as 1st choice RB Matt Paterson as 1st choice CF Olly Lancashire as 3rd choice CB No fit right wingers! When AP took over we, certainly in squad terms, had a very average team that I would argue was worse than at least half of the teams in League 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 i meant we are the man city in the sense we are big spenders....VERY big spenders Yeh but there have been lots of those in the past, from Blackburn to Chelsea in the prem or from Wigan to Fulham in the lower leagues- as I say, what really set Man City apart is that they showed little respect for the natural hierarchy. They could go to Real and f**k Chelsea over by getting Robinho or they could lure away Arsenal's best players. At the moment, we haven't made any comparable signings - players at their peak from bigger clubs. Lambert and Hammond were at smallish clubs, Jaidi was out of contract and near the end of his career - ditto with Connolly who's also been injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Lets hope so! Sign a couple more like Lambert and we really will have a great side. Yeah well I reckon Pardew has had plenty of time since the last window to assess the squad and spot any room for improvement. A few things spring to mind... He already seems to be well respected in the football world (well, aside from Charlton fans) because he has lured top players here, like Hammond who was captain of Colchester, Lambert as well. Jaidi and and a match-fit Connolly could arguably still play at a higher level. The club itself seems to appeal as well, it all looks rather good at the moment. You only have to look at some of our results recently to know we got a good side, but yeah, a few more and we will potentially have a great side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 (edited) Hammond was 'skimmed' from Colchester who were top (now 3rd) and Lambert signed from BR who were 4th and now 8th. We'll see where they both finish at the end of the season but if you think they're bigger teams -and I'm not talking about history and reputation which mean f**k all- you're living on another planet (just look at our attendance which is four or five times bigger than Colchester and BR for start). The only big teams in this division are Norwich, MK Dons, Charlton, Leeds United, Millwall, Huddersfield and possibly Colchester. Edited 29 November, 2009 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Really? Lloyd James as 1st choice RB Matt Paterson as 1st choice CF Olly Lancashire as 3rd choice CB No fit right wingers! When AP took over we, certainly in squad terms, had a very average team that I would argue was worse than at least half of the teams in League 1 Started the season with KD, Harding, Thomas, Saga, Rasiak, Perry, Gillet, Murty, Schneiderlin and Lallana - these players would walk into nearly every side in L1! Even our so called weaker players i.e James, Paterson, Lancashire, Wotton, Mills, Holmes, Gobern, Thomson and Bialkowski would get into most L1 sides. Therefore if you did argue that our side was worse than at least half of the teams in L1 you would obviously lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 We'll see where they both finish at the end of the season but if you think they're bigger teams -and I'm not talking about history and reputation which mean f**k all- you're living on another planet (just look at our attendance which is four or five times bigger than Colchester and BR for start). The only big teams in this division are Norwich, MK Dons, Charlton, Leeds United, Millwall, Huddersfield and possibly Colchester. Didnt suggest they are bigger clubs, just that we have 'skimmed' the best players from other L1 sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 plus maintaining the cost of the wages for a big squad and having 2 ex league 1 managers on the coaching staff.. we should walk this league next year Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madruss Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Started the season with KD, Harding, Thomas, Saga, Rasiak, Perry, Gillet, Murty, Schneiderlin and Lallana - these players would walk into nearly every side in L1! Even our so called weaker players i.e James, Paterson, Lancashire, Wotton, Mills, Holmes, Gobern, Thomson and Bialkowski would get into most L1 sides. Therefore if you did argue that our side was worse than at least half of the teams in L1 you would obviously lose. Ok, I was talking about when AP took over before the spending had begun (pre-Harding and Murty). I agree with KD, Rasiak, Thomas, Gillet, Llallana and Schneiderlin being able to walk into nearly every League 1 team, but the point I was trying to make was that if we hadn't spent a lot of money we would not have been competitive in this League, certainly not looking to finish top half anyway. I'm still impressed with the success rate of Pardew's signings, especially considering how many he's made. Only Mellis has really failed to set the world alight, but then even he's had a couple of good games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Yeah well I reckon Pardew has had plenty of time since the last window to assess the squad and spot any room for improvement. A few things spring to mind... He already seems to be well respected in the football world (well, aside from Charlton fans) because he has lured top players here, like Hammond who was captain of Colchester, Lambert as well. Jaidi and and a match-fit Connolly could arguably still play at a higher level. The club itself seems to appeal as well, it all looks rather good at the moment. You only have to look at some of our results recently to know we got a good side, but yeah, a few more and we will potentially have a great side. What I cannot understand with Pardew is his position on Gillet. We are desperate for someone half decent to put in a performance in the defensive midfield and Gillet is doing more than that against the likes of QPR. You could understand when you are over loaded in a certain position, but this is one area where we are desperate. I see someone from here has already looked into this here , a lot of praise from their fans and I believe he has started every game for them? Time to bring back the bouncer from Mothercare. He put in performances for us in this position and is now doing so a league higher against decent opposition. I agree he does not look so hot in other positions, but that is not what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 What I cannot understand with Pardew is his position on Gillet. We are desperate for someone half decent to put in a performance in the defensive midfield and Gillet is doing more than that against the likes of QPR. You could understand when you are over loaded in a certain position, but this is one area where we are desperate. I see someone from here has already looked into this here , a lot of praise from their fans and I believe he has started every game for them? Time to bring back the bouncer from Mothercare. He put in performances for us in this position and is now doing so a league higher against decent opposition. I agree he does not look so hot in other positions, but that is not what we need. Id have Gillet ahead of Wotton everytime. Strange that AP didnt give him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKimish Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Yeh but there have been lots of those in the past, from Blackburn to Chelsea in the prem or from Wigan to Fulham in the lower leagues- as I say, what really set Man City apart is that they showed little respect for the natural hierarchy. They could go to Real and f**k Chelsea over by getting Robinho or they could lure away Arsenal's best players. At the moment, we haven't made any comparable signings - players at their peak from bigger clubs. Lambert and Hammond were at smallish clubs, Jaidi was out of contract and near the end of his career - ditto with Connolly who's also been injured. That's mainly down to the fact that most players in the Premiership are money-hungry ****s with no sign of loyalty. The lower down the leagues you go, the more you see players at clubs that they love, transferring to other clubs purely for the sake of their career as apposed to and Adebayor-esque move just for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 23 L1 sides combined = 910k! That figure is very very very wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 That figure is very very very wrong! explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 explain Your figure is far too low and also doesn't take into account undisclosed transfers. You state 900k for the 23 league clubs. Norwich spent around that themselves. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/5494052/Transfers-League-One-summer-2009.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Your figure is far too low and also doesn't take into account undisclosed transfers. You state 900k for the 23 league clubs. Norwich spent around that themselves. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfers/5494052/Transfers-League-One-summer-2009.html based on a best guess formula - can give/take 100k but my figure is not to far off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewell Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 When will some of you get it into your thick heads that it is not just about money? If it was Nott’s County would be top of league 2, QPR of the championship and Many City in the Premiership! It is all about the manager and the team he is allowed to build. Having money is an advantage but time and time again it is not the be all and end all. In any case both Marcus and Nicola have both been quoted that they will not throw money at Saints but will run it as a viable business. Why can’t we drop the money thing as IMHO it is totally irrelevant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 When will some of you get it into your thick heads that it is not just about money? If it was Nott’s County would be top of league 2, QPR of the championship and Many City in the Premiership! It is all about the manager and the team he is allowed to build. Having money is an advantage but time and time again it is not the be all and end all. In any case both Marcus and Nicola have both been quoted that they will not throw money at Saints but will run it as a viable business. Why can’t we drop the money thing as IMHO it is totally irrelevant! it is not irrelevant HTH lots of love...TDD xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 based on a best guess formula - can give/take 100k but my figure is not to far off It is massively off!!! I'll just do League One transfers where transfer fee was disclosed. There are many more that were undisclosed to add to this list!!! BRIGHTON IN Elliott Bennett Wolves £200,000 rising to £250,000 Liam Dickinson Derby £100,000 CARLISLE IN Kevan Hurst S****horpe £145,000 Richard Offiong Hamilton Academical £75,000 CHARLTON IN Luke Holden Rhyl 10k COLCHESTER IN Joel Thomas Hamilton Academical £150,000 Magnus Okuonghae Dagenham & Redbridge £45,000 rising to £80,000 HARTLEPOOL IN Adam Boyd Leyton Orient £80,000 HUDDERSFIELD IN Robbie Simpson Coventry £500,000 Theo Robinson Watford £100,000 rising to £375,000 LEEDS IN Leigh Bromby Sheffield United £250,000 MILLWALL IN Steve Morison Stevenage Borough £130,000 MILTON KEYNES DONS IN Jermaine Easter Plymouth £200,000 NORWICH IN Grant Holt Shrewsbury £550,000 Owain Tudor Jones Swansea City £250,000 That is £3m already and doesn't included about 20 transfers with undisclosed fees, so the actual figure is probably about £4.5m - which is alot more than your 900k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Yawn what an insightful post...much prefer these to your soap box rallying cries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 If we say £2m on players and add that to the rumoured £12.5m buying SFC cost ML then I guess (with various other costs/fees incurred ) he's probably spent well over £16m on this club already . Bare this in mind before calling for further expensive signings during the January transfer window . We might well be relatively 'big spenders' in this division but in absolute terms the spend on players has been modest enough compared to what could lay ahead , it will be interesting to see just how deep our new owner will delve into his pockets if and when we start to climb the leagues and the stakes (and costs) rise even further . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 what an insightful post...much prefer these to your soap box rallying cries We all know we're the fourth richest club in the UK, so what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Must admit money is as relevant in football as playing is. Money meant we nearly went out of business, and then Liebherr's money saved us. Money bought us last year's top League goal scorer, and another club's captain. If it's not relevant I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 We might well be relatively 'big spenders' in this division but in absolute terms the spend on players has been modest enough compared to what could lay ahead , it will be interesting to see just how deep our new owner will delve into his pockets if and when we start to climb the leagues and the stakes (and costs) rise even further . good question... lets say (for arguement sake) he spends.....(not counting what the extra the club itself generates etc) £15m to buy the club £5m on rebuilding the team for promotion to CCC and midtable when there £5m to add to go up to the prem that is £25m how much would we be worth in the prem with the sky money...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 good question... lets say (for arguement sake) he spends.....(not counting what the extra the club itself generates etc) £15m to buy the club £5m on rebuilding the team for promotion to CCC and midtable when there £5m to add to go up that is £25m how much would we be worth in the prem with the sky money...? I reckon the club could be worth £80m if in the Premiership so a bargain buy for Mr Liebherr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 29 November, 2009 I reckon the club could be worth £80m if in the Premiership so a bargain buy for Mr Liebherr. lets say he is generous and ups the £25m to £30m over the next 3-4 years.... still, could sell us at a right old profit in 5 years (it is all goes to plan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 It is massively off!!! I'll just do League One transfers where transfer fee was disclosed. There are many more that were undisclosed to add to this list!!! BRIGHTON IN Elliott Bennett Wolves £200,000 rising to £250,000 Liam Dickinson Derby £100,000 CARLISLE IN Kevan Hurst S****horpe £145,000 Richard Offiong Hamilton Academical £75,000 CHARLTON IN Luke Holden Rhyl 10k COLCHESTER IN Joel Thomas Hamilton Academical £150,000 Magnus Okuonghae Dagenham & Redbridge £45,000 rising to £80,000 HARTLEPOOL IN Adam Boyd Leyton Orient £80,000 HUDDERSFIELD IN Robbie Simpson Coventry £500,000 Theo Robinson Watford £100,000 rising to £375,000 LEEDS IN Leigh Bromby Sheffield United £250,000 MILLWALL IN Steve Morison Stevenage Borough £130,000 MILTON KEYNES DONS IN Jermaine Easter Plymouth £200,000 NORWICH IN Grant Holt Shrewsbury £550,000 Owain Tudor Jones Swansea City £250,000 That is £3m already and doesn't included about 20 transfers with undisclosed fees, so the actual figure is probably about £4.5m - which is alot more than your 900k your figures are waaaaaaay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 your figures are waaaaaaay off. Why? They come from the Telegraph article I linked to. Where did you get the 900k from? Should be £4.5m for the other 23 clubs imo as I have shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Why? They come from the Telegraph article I linked to. Where did you get the 900k from? Should be £4.5m for the other 23 clubs imo as I have shown. Just as an example - BRIGHTON IN Elliott Bennett Wolves £200,000 rising to £250,000 Bennett played 2 senior games for Wolves - fee was reported to be minimal 25/30k Also when Gunn left Norwich he expressed his disapointment - explaining that he had signed a number of players over the summer and had assembled a decent squad for "under 300k" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 29 November, 2009 Share Posted 29 November, 2009 Also when Gunn left Norwich he expressed his disapointment - explaining that he had signed a number of players over the summer and had assembled a decent squad for "under 300k" So how much do you think Grant Holt and Owen Tudor-Jones cost Norwich? Under 300k really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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