Diesel...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

So what do we think is going to happen with Diesel going forward? If buying a new car now, would you still buy diesel, or is it too 'up in the air' whether or not they will become taxed too highly, or even banned from our roads in the future?

[norwaysaint]

I've gone against the trend a bit recently. I have driven an electric car, two actually, for the last four years, an e-Golf and an E-Up. They are nice cars and here in Norway the upsides have been that we don't pay on the toll roads, don't pay road tax and can drive in bus lanes, as well as there being free parking spaces all over the city, with charging points attached (which you do pay for).

 

However, the range began to become a problem. The E-Up, although it said 145km when fully charged, was more likely to deliver about 80-90km, the e-Golf around 120km. Express charging machines could refill them in about 25 minutes, semi-express in about 2-3 hours and normal plug sockets about 6 hours. This meant that my life was eventually being partially controlled by my car and having to plan around what it could do. It takes loads of the fun out of driving if you are having to take range constantly into account and plan around sitting in a car park at a specific place to recharge for half an hour, if you don't have to queue for the charger. Obviously using the heating cuts the range by quite a bit.

 

When I decided to sell it, I discovered how bad the market was for used e-cars and was lucky I found someone willing to pay a fair price. My new car is a diesel, which gave me a lot of car for a very low price, it cost far less than I sold my e-car for. It's helped me to enjoy driving again at last. I'm sure diesel will become harder and harder to sustain and taxed more and more heavily, but hopefully when it's time to look at e-cars again, they will have sorted out decent range for a sensible price.

 

About half of the cars sold here are electric now, but a lot of families have one electric and one bigger petrol or diesel car for using when they go out of the city.

[scotty]

Diesel's a busted flush now as far as cars are concerned. It's hard to see commercials making the switch any time soon though.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I've gone against the trend a bit recently. I have driven an electric car, two actually, for the last four years, an e-Golf and an E-Up. They are nice cars and here in Norway the upsides have been that we don't pay on the toll roads, don't pay road tax and can drive in bus lanes, as well as there being free parking spaces all over the city, with charging points attached (which you do pay for).

 

However, the range began to become a problem. The E-Up, although it said 145km when fully charged, was more likely to deliver about 80-90km, the e-Golf around 120km. Express charging machines could refill them in about 25 minutes, semi-express in about 2-3 hours and normal plug sockets about 6 hours. This meant that my life was eventually being partially controlled by my car and having to plan around what it could do. It takes loads of the fun out of driving if you are having to take range constantly into account and plan around sitting in a car park at a specific place to recharge for half an hour, if you don't have to queue for the charger. Obviously using the heating cuts the range by quite a bit.

 

When I decided to sell it, I discovered how bad the market was for used e-cars and was lucky I found someone willing to pay a fair price. My new car is a diesel, which gave me a lot of car for a very low price, it cost far less than I sold my e-car for. It's helped me to enjoy driving again at last. I'm sure diesel will become harder and harder to sustain and taxed more and more heavily, but hopefully when it's time to look at e-cars again, they will have sorted out decent range for a sensible price.

 

About half of the cars sold here are electric now, but a lot of families have one electric and one bigger petrol or diesel car for using when they go out of the city.

 

Yeah, that's the kind of experience that I've heard about as well - the benefits are very similar here at the moment. I would say having one as a run around is a decent idea but until they can sort a proper 300 mile "tank" it may be difficult for a lot of people to justify.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Diesel's a busted flush now as far as cars are concerned. It's hard to see commercials making the switch any time soon though.

 

It's whether or not commercials will be made to. It's odd, because carmakers like Audi have switched their "S" cars to Diesel from Petrol. Second hand Diesels are going to struggle. It seems that buying a new car, it needs to be either Electric, Petrol or Hybrid, and judging by Norway above, probably just Petrol or Hybrid.

[scotty]

It's whether or not commercials will be made to. It's odd, because carmakers like Audi have switched their "S" cars to Diesel from Petrol. Second hand Diesels are going to struggle. It seems that buying a new car, it needs to be either Electric, Petrol or Hybrid, and judging by Norway above, probably just Petrol or Hybrid.

 

I guess as they improve battery life and range to realistic levels we'll all end up with electric cars. Or conceivably, without cars at all if this guy is right....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45786690

 

The difference with commercials is the loads they have to pull. It's hard to generate the sort of torque necessary without a diesel engine, and they also obviously need far greater ranges than private cars to be cost efficient.

[norwaysaint]

Longer range e-cars are becoming more normal and they are going to become a lot more affordable. I decoded to sell mine at that point because I know that in a year I wouldn't be able to give it away. People are queuing up here to get the new generation of electric cars. Hybrids don't seem to have much of a market.

 

The problem with the second hand electric market is that the batteries have a lifespan and they are going to be very expensive to replace. I think diesel still has a few more years left in it and you can now pick up a very good spec, top range diesel car for hardly anything. The running costs of my diesel are far higher than my e-car was, but as I made thousands on the swap, it makes economic sense for a few years while long range e-cars become more standard.

[Colinjb]

With new exhaust technologies Diesel has a lot more mileage yet. It's just fallen out of vogue as a scapegoat. I personally have much more faith that a conventional diesel engine which can effectively run on plant based oils and be recycled without issue has a lower total life cost then an electric car which needs to consume rare earth elements and several battery changes to equal the lifespan.

 

It was very curious how the ELV (End of Life Vehicle) regualtions stating that a certain amount of a car needs to be recyclable quietly vanished as soon as Hybrids and Electrical Vehicles became the fashion.

Edited 22 September, 2019 by Colinjb

[Unbelievable Jeff]

With new exhaust technologies Diesel has a lot more mileage yet. It's just fallen out of vogue as a scapegoat. I personally have much more faith that a conventional diesel engine which can effectively run on plant based oils and be recycled without issue has a lower total life cost then an electric car which needs to consume rare earth elements and several battery changes to equal the lifespan.

 

It was very curious how the ELV (End of Life Vehicle) regualtions stating that a certain amount of a car needs to be recyclable quietly vanished as soon as Hybrids and Electrical Vehicles became the fashion.

 

It's an interesting thought - it feels like there needs to be a decision made within the car industry as the best way to go - I can assume a lot of people don't know which way is best when buying a car, and this may be one of the reasons that the car industry is struggling at the moment.

[OldNick]

I cant see how people in Central London for example who live in high rise flats will be able to find anywhere to charge their vehicles overnight. Im told that at the supermarkets when you are fully charged you get a message and after about 10 minutes you get charged a high charge per minute? if you haven't moved. It is understandable so that the charging points are left free, but overnight??

I have been considering a Tesla but my wife finds our Range Rover too big and so the Tesla is pretty big as will,although the 3 is smaller

[norwaysaint]

Should be pointed out as well that while electricity in Norway, the world's leader in electric cars, comes largely from hydro and other renewable sources, most electricity in the UK comes from fossil fuels and nuclear, so there's nothing especially environmentally friendly about getting your power that way for British people.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Should be pointed out as well that while electricity in Norway, the world's leader in electric cars, comes largely from hydro and other renewable sources, most electricity in the UK comes from fossil fuels and nuclear, so there's nothing especially environmentally friendly about getting your power that way for British people.

 

However, of you have solar panels at home I guess that helps...

[OldNick]

Should be pointed out as well that while electricity in Norway, the world's leader in electric cars, comes largely from hydro and other renewable sources, most electricity in the UK comes from fossil fuels and nuclear, so there's nothing especially environmentally friendly about getting your power that way for British people.

whilst im sure you are correct I think there is now a larger percentage that is renewable, whether that is cost effective is another thing

[Johnny Bognor]

It's an interesting thought - it feels like there needs to be a decision made within the car industry as the best way to go - I can assume a lot of people don't know which way is best when buying a car, and this may be one of the reasons that the car industry is struggling at the moment.

 

The industry are already making that decision.

 

Mercedes to stop developing combustion engines...

 

https://electrek.co/2019/09/19/daimler-stops-developing-internal-combustion-engines-to-focus-on-electric-cars/