The9

Stoke have worn white socks for 12 of the past 14 seasons, and in one of the other two they wore exactly the same socks as Saints have in the red kit picture above. I'm not sure how us wearing white socks would differentiate us from them. That happens already because Stoke almost always wear white shorts, which we haven't done since 1890 except the sash kit. We do look like Sunderland now and then though - and they have black shorts and red socks next season. And red sleeves. Personally I'm not worried about us "looking like other teams", there are plenty of them and have been for years, and I never have a problem. Now that all-red thing, we just looked like Liverpool, as with the pin-striped thing the season before, too, and at a glance I frequently mistook them being on screen for us. At least with stripes there's a chance you might be right.

Not true. Thought this for a while, but Liverpool can only lose an EL slot they've qualified for.

Yeah, it doesn't actually matter by the looks of it. Which makes sense because the EL TH slot is meant to be independent of the national qualifying places anyway, they can only cost the Prem an EL slot only they can fill. I'm still pleased they're playing Sunday/Wednesday/Sunday/Wednesday and the EL Final is after the final prem match so they're going to struggle to focus, especially if Chelsea beat them 3 days before.

Yeah, I can clear it up. You can get 8 teams in Europe but Liverpool have to win the EL and finish outside the EL qualification positions for that to happen - which would be them coming 8th or 9th in the Prem. Only the top 7 can qualify for Europe from their League place, if Liverpool come top 7 and win the EL their EL qualification converts to an extra CL spot at the expense of an EL place - but ONLY if they already have an EL place to swap. I've now seen the actual access list (below) and there are 6 English teams plus the Cup winner on it. Liverpool only lose the Prem a Europa League place if they win themselves a Champions League place when already in an EL qualifying place. If they're not in an EL place and win the EL there are still 6 English teams (4 in the CL, 2 in the EL), plus the Cup winner place, plus the EL winner in the CL. Can the qualification places reach as low as 8th? Only if Liverpool finish 8th or 9th.

This is true. Which is why they're only saying the EL winner's CL place removes an EL place IF the CL winner is already an EL qualifier. It's also why the assumption is that 3 EL places remain if Liverpool finish outside the EL qualifying places. And now I've found the Access List, I'm pretty sure (finally) that's the case. The access list shows there are 6 European places plus the FA Cup winner. The Lge Cup winner gets one in England (and France). They only remove an EL place if Liverpool have already got one, otherwise it remains 3.

That hasn't actually been stated anywhere though, only implied.

What if they come 5th and we come 6th?

I'd want the backup keeper not to play any. But then I'd also definitely sign Stekelenburg anyway, and definitely send Gazzaniga out on loan.

Yeah, that's what the UEFA site said before they removed it from the news feed and replaced it with the "two teams winning" angle which promptly became defunct. But the issue is still "what happens if Liverpool DON'T qualify for Europe via League position".

We should be at the point where a simple "step up" access style diagram is possible now. Maybe wait until Monday when the finishing places are less variable.

I'm unconvinced having read what UEFA said about this, although their long-awaited "clarification" on 2 English clubs winning the Finals came just in time for that to be impossible, and seems to have replaced the previous information which was clear on what happened if only one of them did. Plus I definitely don't want England's future coefficient and the chance of making it in the future to impact on the here and now of us actually making it this season. I think the clarification example is if we finish 7th and Liverpool 8th but win CL? They don't qualify via another means, and I think that's the only situation their CL place doesn't remove an additional EL spot - because if they come 7th, 6th, 5th then they convert the EL qualification to CL and it doesn't get passed down. In the situation of them coming 8th (and I'm saying that situation only), we might get to keep the 3rd EL spot and get in in 7th. It's not because they finish above us though, it's because in finishing above us they have to finish in an EL qualifying spot - but isn't it also true that if Man U win the FA Cup but finish below West Ham, and City come 6th that Liverpool haven't finished in an EL spot by coming 7th? Which paradoxically means they add an EL spot, meaning they will have qualified for the EL, which means they lose the EL spot according to the rules, which means... I love that bit. - EDIT: Actually, if Man City and Man U finish below West Ham, West Ham must be 4th - so no that isn't true. Cheers, I hadn't checked where Atletico were in La Liga. And I'm unconvinced due to the questionable wording in the UEFA statement about 5+3.

Let's go for 5th. 6th opens up the possibility of getting dropped into the 3rd Qualifying Round again if... oh I can't help myself.

I am fairly sure this did not happen. Also, we can't actually come 9th, we're 8th at worst, so I'm fairly sure he didn't say that either.

Nathan Dyer is old trousers.

There are about 50 articles like that about him and numerous other players floating about the Internet at the moment, none of them have any relation to the completely false story that started this thread.

Can I also congratulate Dean Hammond on winning the Premier League? I mean he's been at Sheffield United in L1 most of the season, but even so, he's definitely still a Leicester player.

Well I was amused. I'd also like to point out that not at any point did Cortese give me a free donut or beer. Even as a Saints fan up at Leicester they were happy to give me a couple of them (Cheers Vichai), and Katharina saw us right with a beer and sausage and chips at Swansea too. I can't wait for Leicester to change their kit to red.

It matters if we win them and don't qualify, yeah.

This is proven to be incorrect by the UEFA clarification here where UEFA Confirm that if both sides had won the Euro Cups 4th place would take a Europa League spot instead of 5th, leaving only the two domestic cup winners (and Man City at the very least would need to come below 7th which they now can't to have not qualified by other means): http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/news/newsid=2215121.html but... ...anyway, this thread is about us all saying how nice it'll be to have another Final appearance in Cardiff in May 2017... and how mad it is that we might play in Armenia.

That's about qualifying criteria, this *was* about possible opponents etc and planning for the competition itself ( until it went back to the same stuff again).

We get into the EL 3rd Qualifying Round coming 7th with a Man U FA Cup win, and Liverpool not winning the EL. That's not too much to ask. We will need to finish ahead of one of Liverpool or West Ham though.

My understanding is that it is the only thing that can move the EL qualification places up the League other than Palace winning the FA Cup. When you think about it, it's the equivalent of Palace winning the FA Cup - they qualify directly and bypass the need to finish above us in the League. Except it has the added complexity of UEFA's Access list and the rules for 5 CL qualifiers to consider.

Having just tried to put this together, there probably are too many permutations still due to Liverpool possibly winning the EL, Man City being able to come 7th and Man U potentially winning the FA Cup and coming anywhere from 3rd to 8th. The basic rules are... If Liverpool don't win the EL it is this: PL1 CL Group PL2 CL Group PL3 CL Group PL4 CL Play-Off PL5 EL Group + FA Cup Winner place EL Group (unless Man U win the FA Cup, in which case this place goes to the next PL team which hasn't qualified already). + Lge Cup Winner place EL 3 QR (unless Man City come 7th, which will take some doing now but is still possible, this place goes to the next PL team which hasn't qualified already) If Liverpool do win the EL it is this: PL1 CL Group PL2 CL Group PL3 CL Group PL4 CL Play-Off Liverpool - EL winner CL Play-Off (unless the CL winner from Atletico/Real Madrid qualifies for CL via La Liga in which case Liverpool go into the CL Group directly). Plus 2 EL places for the Lge Cup winner (Man City) and FA Cup winner (possibly Man U) unless they've already qualified for CL from their PL position. I think (but not certain) that the FA Cup winner gets the EL Group stage place, the other 3QR. If either of those clubs finish in the CL places their place goes to the next PL team which hasn't qualified already)

Permutations massively reduced last night with City going out. Disagree re: Liverpool winning the EL, that's the only way the EL places could move up not down. There is one EL spot assigned to the top Prem team not finishing in a CL spot* Man C winning the League Cup gives them an EL spot, unless they qualify for the CL, in which case that spot also goes to a Prem team Man U winning the FA Cup gives them an EL spot, unless they're in the CL already, in which case that spot also goes to a Prem team If Liverpool win the EL then they go into the CL and if they finish in an EL spot in the League as well, there will be 5 CL places and only 2 for EL*. I believe if Liverpool DON'T finish in an EL spot the EL place remains and they may add a qualifier overall. If they don't win the EL, then it will be the usual 4CL + 3EL as above. So what we want is Man U to win the FA Cup and Liverpool not to win the EL, which suits me. *given that there are 2 EL places to the two cup winners you could argue that the Prem-only EL slot is the one that's lost if Liverpool win the EL, but in practice as Man City won't finish low enough not to qualify at all, the EL places would go to Man City (Lge Cup Winners anyway) and either West Ham/Man U/Saints on League position, with a team losing out altogether if Liverpool won the EL, and Man U won the FA Cup but finished below that team. I have no idea if this is actually the case, because the League Cup place was always considered the lowest (EL 3QR) place and we've never had the League Cup winners go straight into the EL without them qualifying for the CL since they reworked the rules a couple of years ago. It's just best 2 to group stage and other one (Saints last season) into 3QR usually There's no Fair Play place any more, West Ham got the last of those last season. Nor can you make the EL by losing in the FA Cup Final any more, that's how we got into the EL 3Q last season following the rule change from the start of 2014/15.

Given that we spent most of the last season planning Europe and finding out information, etc, it seems a bit weird that there's not even a thread about it this year. I assume that's because everyone thinks we're coming 8th and we're not going to make it, but even so... Here are the match dates for next season's Europa League http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2017/competitionformat/ Third qualifying round, first leg 28/07/16 Third qualifying round, second leg 04/08/16 Play-off round, first leg 18/08/16 Play-off round, second leg 25/08/16 Group stage, matchday one 15/09/16 Group stage, matchday two 29/09/16 Group stage, matchday three 20/10/16 Group stage, matchday four 03/11/16 Group stage, matchday five 24/11/16 Group stage, matchday six 08/12/16 Round of 32, first leg 16/02/17 Round of 32, second leg 23/02/17 Round of 16, first leg 09/03/17 Round of 16, second leg 16/03/17 Quarter-finals, first leg 13/04/17 Quarter-finals, second leg 20/04/17 Semi-finals, first leg 04/05/17 Semi-finals, second leg 11/05/17 Final (Friends Arena, Stockholm) 24/05/17 Some other stuff here about who's qualified so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_UEFA_Europa_League Mods, you can delete this on Sunday at about 3pm, ok?