Dusic

We had the highest non penalty XG in the league last season - we created plenty and despite missing a lot of relatively easy chances still scored the 3rd highest amount of goals so factually chance creation was not an issue across the season. Also top for number of progressive carries and number of progressive passes across the whole season - both by some distance. By no means perfect or we would have won the league but would suggest the issues we had were not what you describe! Source: FBREF

They have recruited for a specific style of football so to suddenly rip that up after 4 or 5 games and think someone like Moyes would suddenly make it all work is ridiculous. We have one of the worst 3 teams/squads in the league, without question because of the PL riches and amount of very established teams we are competing with. Any manager will be working with that and find it tough. If we were to beat Ipswich we would likely move out of the bottom three in any case and thats our only aim for the season.

Feels almost too obvious to bother saying but not sure there is any value at all in comparing to a season 12 years ago. So much is contextually different whilst crucially the level of the PL outside the top clubs is very different and significantly stronger. Hence there only being a couple of clubs that its genuinely realistic for us to finish above outside of the ones we came up with.

Whilst I agree with the OP on many of the points there are a couple of additional ones I would raise. 1. Probably because we have been a PL side for so much of its existence it feels like there is an enhanced level of expectation vs the reality of a team that finished 4th in the Championship. As an example yesterday we faced a team we didn't beat at home in the last 20 years where at times we had a very good team yet it felt like people viewed it as a good chance to get something. We were favourites to go straight down because we have one of the worst 3 squads in the PL. Important not to lose the context that we are trying to upset the odds. 2. The overall strength of the PL is massively underestimated. Relegation is already 3 from 5 at a push ( us, Ipswich, Leicester, Everton and possibly Wolves). The likes of Forest, Brentford, Fulham etc have quality attackers and solid PL experienced defenders. Probably one or two of our players would get in some of these sides. In many ways we chose a bad year to finally drop because of the strength of teams we went down and then back up with - compared to the PL last year for example. Overall no need to give up and some good signs but so much is stacked against us that its really difficult and some realism is needed in amongst some of the understandable criticism. This definitely isn't a scenario where something black and white like changing a manager or swapping one player or formation is suddenly going to propel us up the table.

No. He said he got to the PL from L2 in 5 years by sticking to his principles so not about to change away from it now he is there.

Ridiculous amount of players not even making the squad, especially in defensive positions: Lumley, Bree, Edwards, Wood, Larios, Manning, Smallbone, Sam Amo, Kamaldeen, Onuachu

Oakley aside, these were more Carlingsmen.

PL club in 'watching another PL match' shocker!

Definitely today as THB, Wood and Bednarek there. Think its Larios you are referring to. Could see ABK and Cornet but not Kamaldeen or TP unless I missed them.

Serious? Trabzonspor's record signing is only €6.9m so if we were to get anywhere near that figure (seemingly doubts in the accuracy of that particular report) it would be fantastic. He is a 30yo player that every club knows we are desperate to get rid of and a year ago it appeared he would need loaning out til his contract expired.

I don't see why he would change like that again having achieved success with a possession based style, and setup the whole operation(academy, recruitment etc) based on it. Also not sure its even his call, although he would obviously have an input. Everything from the club over the last year or so has stressed the importance of alignment and a cohesive club wide plan so it would be quite some shift. I would think far more likely it would be subtle - and also think it is far off anyway seeing as RM achieved a promotion in his only season in charge and we have played 3 games in the league this season.

Whether specifically RM's interpretation 'works' in the PL we will see, and even if it does there is still a high chance we go down because player for player we have one of the three weakest teams. The wider point is it is no good to anyone to continually chop and change everything. If we end up sacking RM, his replacement will be somone with similar views but a slightly different interpretation rather than someone who wants us to revert back into a direct, out of possession focuses team.

No thanks to anything with 3 CBs, we have tried it various times over the years and it has never worked for more than as a change up for one or two matches.

Clearly Nathan Jones was his selection and his style (in theory) is fairly close to what Brentford do: direct, physical etc. It didnt work for obvious reasons. Since then, he employed Wilcox to implement a different style across the club and its been successful with one season played and one promotion achieved. I recall when Wilcox came in he said that when he looked at us across the relegation season we had some gamrs where we got results but it was basically down to luck rather than a specific plan being effective (Everton away under Jones for example). He then apppointed RM with the obvious idea being that by having a clear way of playing and a clear style being coached you are more likely to get a consistent level of performance that helps you to win games. That was clearly demonstrated last season. He also aligned recruitment and the academy to the same philosophy - all very logical to the point where Man Utd (who could have hured anyone they liked) asked him to try and do the same for them. In summary - not quite sure what your point is, as what has been done for the last year clearly has worked and seemingly Rasmus' direct involvment has lessened anyway. Yes it will need tweaking but certainly zero to be gained by ripping it all up and going back to a total opposite style.

A result clearly needed soon but in the very short term I think a performance that shows what we are really about is critical. At Newcastle the way we played gave us a chance to win the game. That we didn't was mostly due to poor finishing plus a very costly mistake. In the other two I doubt any of the metrics plus the eye test has suggested that. We need to revert to what made us good last season, with some tweaks to respect the increased level and then hope that some of the better players we have introduced mean that we can compete at this level. If the likes of Ipswich and Bmth deal with us easily then its time to be concerned. Until now we have barely utilised the new signings and have had a harsh adjustment to a better level. Its too early to make ridiculous conclusions and we have to assume that the manager and players will adapt - as they dmonstrated last season.

It highlights what a few have said: - Its not actually the tactic of passing at the back that is the issue, its usually the action or two before that which causes the problem - certainly the case for that vs Newcastle and for Brentford's first goal. Why is that happening? - Largely because of two things: 1. In the 3 CB shape where Stephens steps forward we end up with players occupying the same space and not having clarity (or Ralph's "automatisms") on what they are doing 2. We have a lack of forward options for the player on the ball because the lineup contains one (maybe even two) too many defensive players and therefore it takes them longer to make a pass or they receive the ball back from the midfield too often. Those specific examples also highlight a valid question of whether selecting a left footed LB (Taylor) would help? In certain situations undoubtedly, but means likely leaving out either KWP or Sugawara. Why is it different from last season? 1. The opposition press (and output when they regain the ball) is better 2. Because RM who lots here say never changes, did change for the specific circumstance of the playoffs and hasn't changed back to what the team is comfortable in, a 4-3-3 where its clear what everyone's roles are and there are multiple paasing options for the player in possession. It worked in the playoffs because WBA are a defensive team under Corberan, Leeds don't press and we were able to grind out the results needed. He needs to be brave and change (again) back to a shape that his possession based strategy is more successful - otherwise we have no chance. I think he will.

Agree with this and its often overlooked and also we had less time than others - hard to get targets to strongly consider you when its depedent upon winning games via playoffs if they have a concrete PL option. Judging by seemingly well sourced reports we went big on Delap early in the window and obviously didnt get him. Likely there were plenty of other forwards that the same applied to before we got BBD and then even more before Archer came in. Cornet said in his interview he first heard of our interest 4 or 5 days before deadline day which kind of sums up how it goes...whereas some clubs could get their top choices he probably wasnt even on our radar in May, June or July when we were after others (Rak-Sakyi for example). Probably of the ones we signed only Lallana, Taylor, THB, Downes and maybe Sugawara were 'first choice' in our planning and obvs Ramsdale was a no brainer. And you can't judge a window at all accurately until at least 6 months later in any case.

Personally felt it was a sensible, reasoned discussion where it was acknowledged that we have made too many errors leading to goals and need to improve fast by cutting out the mistakes and changing the setup to provide more passing options and have players in a role they know and are used to. The panel are there to provide their own views so I just assumed what they said was what they thought, and it seemed reasonable to me.

Isn't the whole thing this season that actually he did subtly change his tactics for the playoffs due to poor form leading in them and the specific nature of them and then actually his failing this season is not changing back to what worked well last season and what he really believes in? Meaning we have no real attacking rhythm, fewer passing options for from the back third (leading to them overplaying) and generally a team setup to go into its shell rather than be confident and expansive. Many of those saying he is too stubborn, never changes etc are the same asking (rightly IMO) for a return to his 'old' 4-3-3 setup which he changed from despite never changing! Also as an aside last season (at least up til March) we had the 2nd most goal involvements from subs out of all four divisions. * I get a section don't like the bloke which is fair enough but some of the stuff written on here is just incorrect. * https://theanalyst.com/2024/03/substitutes-breaking-records-english-football-league

This doesn't make the point that you think it makes. Have a look at the list of top touches in the league this season and for the last few seasons and the top 10 is nearly always made up of centre backs and if there are others its full backs or holding midfielders. With almost any manager our players with the most touches would be centre backs - as it is for pretty much every other team.

The issue is the legal meaning of the rules as they are written, so effectively a cock up by the PL's legal team for not considering this specific situation when drafting the PSR. Imagine the loophole will be closed veey soon if it hasn't been already. Its nothing to do with the City case as the PL wanted to enforce the rules against Leicester but those rules were, in this case, not legally binding.

Leicester off their points deduction on a technicality in the PSR wording meaning their charges being brought when an EFL team are not binding. Bit of a blow for the sides near the bottom as it was expected they would receive a decent deduction.

Not too much chat about this as it happened relatively late bit in theory Cornet will be a big asset and his main issue is not lack of ability but lack of minutes through injury and then WH having some very good players in his position. One thing is has that we lack is the ability to get in the box from wide and score goals - for this reason surely he will become a starting XI player? Along with Lallana and Fraser probs the only guys to have scored double figures of PL goals in their career (which sums up our lack of proven attacking quality). Did note the Echo said he joined with a minor knock so will be interesting to see if he is the training pics next time there are any. From what I can see he hasnt featured for Ivory Coast for a while too which helps us I think.

It was perhaps slightly toned down in the playoffs but certainly not abandoned. WBA were happy to sit off and Leeds forwards, especially Gnonto and Summerville are pathetic from a pressing perpsective - certainly different levels from the teams we face at this level. Despite what people want (understandably) he will never move away from that side of it so we have to hope they will a.) make better decisions on the ball and b.) be structurally better setup so they have more forward options. I think with a few changes to personnel, setup and decision making we can be much better and safer at doing it and Ramsdale will help too. Like with the goal at Newcastle the mistake gets rightly highlighted but the cause of the situation is usually from a few actions ago e.g decision to turn back in midfield or lack of options for defenders to pick out. As showed when Dibling came on and started combining with Sugawara, we are a far better team in a 4-3-3 and everyone is more comfortable in possession. But does he have the balls to drop a CB?

IMO the issue is actually that after winning promotion he hasn't gone back to what we did last season and he has actually carried on with the playoff tactics. 3 CBs and 3 CMs gave us some solidity in the very specific situation of playoff games at the expense of our attacking threat (until the Smallbone goal we hadn't done much over 150mins vs WBA) and he has stuck with it. His style cleaely works best with a 4-3-3 but he hasnt been brave enough to setup like that, likely for fear of a few thrashings - certainoy away vs Newcastle had the potential for that. Playing out from the back is easier when everyone knows their role and when defenders have players in front of them to pick out. Made harder when players occupy the same space or have no obvious options. We spent 95% of last season in a 4-3-3 where roles were clear and now in some positions we have better players. Teams at PL level (aside from us) won't gift goals and you have to have some kind of attacking threat to keep them honest. The way we have setup just hasnt given that. We very likely will go down, as have one of the worst 3 squads anyway before a ball is kicked...but our best chance under RM will be to play his style and system fully rather than the wimpy hybrid that we have used so far.