saintjay77

I thought we only get the extra -15 if we fail to come out of admin via the CVA. Which I thought was the buit that says all creditors have been satisfied. If we owe 6 mill to the bank and pay off 3 mill to come out of admin the bank would say they are happy with that and we get the cva. They say they are not and we dont get the cva and get a further -15 on top of the -10 So as SFC is not technically in Admin we can argue that we shouldnt have the -10 points. If we now go into Admin we will no doubt get -10 points, but we can then give the creditors there money that will in turn satisfy them. They sign the CVA for us and we come out with no more than -10 points. Problem is the FL have already stuck the boot in with the -10 for no reason. Surly they cant just dish out another -10 for going into admin twice can they?

Technically could SFC apply to go into Administration now? And if they did would the FL then choke at the thought that they had already tried to punish us for something that we are only just applying for?

Thats my thinking too. The back and forth is probably just to try and get the wording of the contracts right so there is no come back for either side. Both will want to get as much as they can get out of it though. Lets say they agree on the -10 and no more? There is probably a thousand points in the contract that have to be worded very carfully that covers us without the CVA and covers the league should anyone else try and go this route.

Just to twist this a little, Chelsea were in a big finacial hole as they massivly overspent on there village and there team. Along came a Billionare who cleared all there debt and spunked loads of money into the team. If Pinnacle had come along just before we went into admin and taken us over, maybe just restructured the debt on the stadium and cleared the overdraft, then spunked a load of dosh on the team would that be cheating? It seems to me like its the same thing happening but just the other side of administration. I would understand if all the people that were owed money out of this got bugger all and we became the next chelsea but thats not going to happen. those owed money will get there money and at the most will cut some of the interest off the top.

Did I miss when Pinnacle said thy are taking on the stadium company too along with the mortage? Fair enough the administrators will be working with all the creditors to find out what kind of deal they would take but I thought Pinnacle were just on record as being after the football company. I thought someone else showed interest in the stadium. We could end up being charged rent which is double what the mortage payments should be so how is that gaining an advantage?

I agree with you and think that if they are going to use a set of rules they need to be clear and they should follow them. I think someone should take them on too but the way they run things at the mo I pitty anyone who does go against them. Its obvious that Pinnacle see a better solution by working nicley nicely with the league rather than sticking to there guns and starting a battle. Personally I think thats more to do with having to continue to work with them once it all gets resolved. They dont seem like the kind of bunch you would want to intentionally P off because they seem to be able to run things the way they want rather than what would normally happen in everyday work places. I just want it to end with us being in the league with a club to support and an owner that wants the same as us.

I got the idea that its about the -10 points now but that Pinnacle want that delt with in a way that there is no further come back down the line. Its almost like Pinnacle are haggling with the FL. Pinnacle offer the league to drop the points and the league are ready to refuse us into the league. by the time the bartering has been concluded we will be left with -10 and in the league and the FL will leave it at that. Something most of us will take right now I guess.

Trouble with anyone sueing the league would leave the club open to all sorts of problems down the line. As the league is a members club rules can be changed and made to suit as they see fit so life could be made very difficult if the league chooses to go that way. I doubt anyone will try and sue the league unless they have absolutly nothing to lose. Say they kick us out and we start up a new league. We decide to stick with the new league no matter what happens and sue the league. we win and flip the bird because we are not coming back anyway. We lose and we are still not going back. I know this is very far fetched but there is IMO a very limited number of options that anyone would bother sueing the league for. What is more likly is that Pinnacle try to get the league and themselves to agree on sanctions and changes that cover both us and the league and also close any loopholes so the league dont come a croper again. All sides will need to come out of things looking like they have won or else the small ripples created now will turn into tidal waves later on.

I would be happy with all of that. And you last point I think is why Pinnacle are battling now. They probably know that the League wont back down on the -10 points but by fighting now they are likly to get a resolution of -10 points and that it. Rather than accepting it and then the league popping up with the - extra points due to SLH not acceptabley pleasing all its creditors. 1 way or anyother the league have to agree that we are not linked with SLH like they once believed but we still should have the punishment that fits the situation. If they can agree on the wording that satifys both parties then we will have new owners. If they cant then any other possible buyers will get to the same stumbling block. Fry will have to sell the club at some point and it will be based on us recieving up to -25 points which puts the value of the club much lower and makes a greater risk of us not satisfying our creditors. A big catch 22 that needs to be sorted ASAP

Personally I would be OK with us having a new owner and a future starting on -10 but can understand the right to try and fight the decission as to me it seems the league rules are at fault rather than the club. Dont get me wrong as I the club are as guilty as sin but like the cheating players coment above, if its within the rules then its fair and if that stinks then its the leagues job to change it.

Players going down in the penalty box at the slightest of touches to win a penalty is within the rules although it stinks when its against you? SFC have done things within the rules stated by the FL so should still be treated by those same rules. We and everyone else doesnt like it so the league should change the rules to prevent it happening. Untill they do they should stick to there own rules.

To be fair it doesnt matter what SFC sign to waive any appeal as the right to appeal to a court is a legal right which is open to anyone. The waiver is the right to appeal to the FL IMO. If I enter into a deal with you and sign a waiver that says I cant go to court to appeal our agreement. How much do you think the court will pay attention to what is basically a bribe? The administrators or perspective new owners may have missed a trick by missing the 7 days but I understand that they want that 7 days to be ignored so they can present there case to the FL. Pinnacle have more chance of getting somewhere if the FL hear there appeal as although courts will ignore the waiver they will also see that the FL is a members club and can pretty much set what ever rules it wants.

I know but my point is there are several versions of the same events and one way or another the FL created the rules to cope with such events. We act it seems within the rules of these events and the FL change tac. So it doesnt bode well for anyone else that may find themselves in this situation. IMO the FL need to put this to bed ASAP. no doubt there are clubs that are run by a holding company which will get into trouble via other means and it not be the Football clubs fault. These clubs need to be protected which is what the league rules are supposed to be there for. Those rules do not cover clubs that drain the holding company and are the cause of the administration so by the letter of the rules we should be in the clear yet are getting nailed. The league could hold an appeal and decide that we are in the right but in the spirit of the league and respect to other clubs rules are adjusted to close the loop hole and we get the -10 without the need for a CVA. Im sure this wouldnt be hard to do and the league would be covered for future clubs entering into this kind of situation. We get a punnishment which i doubt many would argue we deserve and the league save face and are set to continue with the support of all clubs.

Ah fair enough. But if SLH was not in trouble and SFC was, could the administration process have been refused?

thing is the previous clubs that have been put in this position have all beleived they were harshly treated in some way or another and the league bend there rules to suit each case. Derby had pretty much the same situation as us and got away with a new owner and no points deduction. West ham have done the same thing. yet Luton and Leeds and now us have all been treated differently. Its a bit like a lie IMO. it starts off small but its not long before more lies are told to cover the original and it will keep going untill it gets out of control. The League acted one way for one situation which may not have been the fairest solution and as such future problems of a similar standing have to follow suit. as each situation is different a new version of events has to be created and the mess gets bigger. Now another new set of events is being created with us in that we can prove we are in the right but are getting treated like we are in the wrong. What happened to the next club that goes down this route? It will be pot luck as to if the league will punish them or not and they cant base it on previous situations as they are all conflicting.

Barclays put SLH into admin did they not? The club made huge mistakes which got us into the position where we were put into admin for sure but I dont think the decission was ours. It certainly wasnt reported that way at the time. On the face of it I look at SLH and SFC as being near enough the same thing. SLH wouldnt have existed on the Radio station and insurance company alone so SFC and SLH are one in the same thing to me and probably to most. The accountant was sent in to look at SFC's accounts which Fry gave him full access too. He was refused access to stuff which was outside of his remit and he went back to the FL in a strop saying he couldnt tell because he couldnt see everything. The FL decided on that info that we are all 1 and the same thing. Fry and his legal team, Pinnacle and there legal team, SFC and there legal team all believe that SFC and SLH are legally seperate companies and believe they can argue there case in an appeal. If the FL are so sure on there decission why dont they just give the appeal and rule that they think they were right all alone? The appeal will just show if there has been a mistake or not. The league can still say that the football club was the cause of SLH going into admin and give us the points anyway. Its there league and there rules as they want to make them.

It shouldnt be about the league winning anything. they provide a competition in which its there duty to make sure all clubs in said competition have a fair crack at competing in said competition. We should have the right to appeal to the league to have a look at our case again to judge weather or not they made the correct decission in deducting us -10 points. We are NOT trying to fight the league, we are just asking them to double check there decission as we believe there has been an error. That is what the appeal process is for at any level and removing that process is something that is more likly to be done by a dictator than a bunch of suits running a competition.

Along with another 21 days exclusivity period comes another 500k which will pay another months wages. player bonuss's may go out of the window but the club would still be alive and even if we had to field a squad from the acadamy there are enough players still under contract to form a team. even if its not very competitive.

Are you suggesting Mole is Keith?

there were a few that were wanting admin for the same thing IMO lol

Missing your old arguments so thought you would try and stir them up again or something? Cant see who your aiming that at though to be honest as I havnt seen many hating the Pinnacle group.

TBF as we are not in an exclusivity period he is duty bound to speak to any other party that can prove proof of funds. I guess he will be telling them the problems that Pinnacle are facing and letting them go away and figure out there next step. Pinnacle are still further ahead than anyone else but will be buggered if another party come up with the readies for a 21 day exclusivity period as I take it that would then exclude them from talking with the club about a takeover. All IMO of course

As far as we know its just about the -10 points. But who knows what is in the contracts? We are all guessing as to if they are negotiating no further punnishment or not. Its better than argueing about previous knobs though

I think the contract that they keep passing back and forth is as thick as my waiste and it all goes quite on either side while they read. I wouldnt be suprised if they all find something else to argue about though so guess there will be another tomorrow.

I doubt they would get very far but then the league could have just said that the new owners are welcome to appeal. Its there league and they can make the rules as they wish. They could have heard the appeal and then decided that effectivly the club were in administration due to there holding company being in administration and the -10 points stand now move on. As they tried to take the appeal process away it makes it all look very suspicious and where Pinnacle once thought they had a fairly solid case to get it overturned, they now think the FL are crapping it because Pinnacle have a cast iron case to get it overturned. The league have made the mess worse IMO and keep backing themselves into a corner that they dont want to fight there way out of.