um pahars

And as Dubai Phil so eloquently pointed out, it is also good if you learn from those failures, something which Lowe has continually failed to do. Which brings us neatly on to: Football is all about opinions, and with the CEO/Chairman playing such a pivotal role at our Club, then criticism (and praise) is all fair game. Indeed, if by appraising Lowe and by pointing out his huge mistake in pursuing this flawed strategy, it ensures these mistakes are not repeated then it is certainly not a waste of energy. Given he was the main driver of this monumental cck up, then i think it is an absolutely valid assertion that he really shouldn't be playing a part in future decisions of this magnitude. Judging him solely by his performance, he has been found wanting and bringing this back to the OP he was a million miles from being right by taking us down the Revolutionary COaching Set Up playing Total Football with ex Academy lads.

And his performances should be judged against the backdrop of the attempts to run him out of the Club and having his salary leaked to the press. So fair play to Euell for being at the centre of this mini revival and fair play also to Wotte for recongnising his importance and perhaps even putting an arm around him and bringinh him in from the cold.

It was not forced upon us whatsoever. The financial constraints certainly dictated what we could and what we couldn't do, but that is not the same as booting out a decent manager and bringing in an a sham of one. Even given our tight financial position, there was still no need to go for this Revolutionary Coaching Set Up playing Total Football, overseen by a manager who was so clearly out of his depth.

I can see what you're saying with regards at least out of this mess we will have a few youngsters who have expereinced the rough and tumble of the CCC and will be stronger for it, but I would also say that I think many of them should hve been blooded in a much more balanced side anyway. I had no problem with the 4 you've named (even 2 of them aren't my favourites) being played this season and I think they should have played anyway. There is a worry that some others have been dropped in the deep end too early, which could actually be detrimental to their development. If a few players come out the other side of this daft experiment, then I will take that, but being honest that's pretty small compensation for putting the whole livelihood of the Club on the line.

McMenemy did indeed use this system, which is why I think it resonates with so many Saints fans (then again I'm sure we're not the only club to have used it well). Which is also why I cringed when I heard that Poortvliet had said that the older players couldn't play with the youngsters because they're not on the same wavelength!!!

Very sensible and balanced post. I don't think anyone had any problems bringing youngsters through, but like you I thought it was madness to be relying on the likes of McGoldrick, Lancashire etc etc etc for the whole 46 games in a team where they would be surrounded by youngsters. Throw in some experienced players, and as you say in key positions, then augment that woth youngsters. James looks a different player now he is the only youngster in a back 5. Even McGoldrick looks more sprightly now he doesn;t have the pressure of having to socre. You're right in that we got to where we are now by default and hopefully the current set up will pull us out the relegation zone, but like you I think we need to address how we ended up in this mess come the summer. One worry is your point about the inability to learn from mistakes, because my worry (which has been heightened by those on here trying to suggest the experiment almost came off) is that come the summer a certain individual will be smarting from getting it wrong and perhaps determined to try it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but IMHO we had a little spike when we had back to back wins against Doncaster and Norwich, and a glimmer of hope after Reading and Derby, but the vast majority of that 28 game period was very, very poor and we would do well to remember that in order not to repeat the same sorry mistakes. I am acutely awarte of the historical and financial context in which this season is being played out, but that does not excuse the sheer number of poor decisions that have been made throughout this season.

I'm sorry, but it didn't "nearly work", it was an unmitigated disaster that left us second bottom with less points than games, etc etc etc. Sorry, if it's broing, but we need to accept that those first 28 games were an absolute shambles, and if they weren't then we wouldn't have booted out the manager and undertaken a massive U turn. We were heading into Divsion 3 and administration and in my book, that's not "nearly working". We need to stop looking back in some romantic way that we almost pulled it off, because that was not the case at all (IMHO of course).

Sorry, but too many IF's in there for me. We were second bottom, 26 points from 28 games and going backwards (1 win in last 10, won once at home etc etc etc). You can gloss it up as much as you like, but to suggest we were 2nd bottom after 28 games because of the reasons above is somewhat rewriting history (I'm sure the same reasons/excuses can be said for every team in our division, but ultimately the table does not lie). Those first 28 games were an unmitigated disaster. The league position, points tally and the fact the manager got the boot are a testament to that, so we would do well to steer clear of trying to see it through rose tinted glasses. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but I never saw any evidence that it would have succeeded eventually, nothing whatsoever. And what is worrying with such a viewpoint is that if it is mirrored by those in power, then there is the risk that we could be repeat these mistakes next season if we stay up. I worry that Lowe will be accepting dropping the Total Football & Revolutionary Coaching Set Up due to our precarious position, but what's to say he won't be dusting it off and re-issuing Version 2 come the summer!!!!!!!!

I find it very hard to agree with anything in that statement and others have put it better on this thread, and on the madness of the Poortvliet experiment thread, as to why your OP does not resonate with me. We have bombed out the manager who was used to working with youngsters and no money (how I loved that line of that infamous CV), we have thrown out the idea of going with youngsters, we have dropped the Total Football approach, etc etc etc. What we have seen is a U turn of epic proportions, but then again what we are doing now is no more than the majority on here were saying months ago, and no more than what other teams have been doing for years. The whole idea that we would take a different and innovative approach and be the leaders in our field was blown out of the water in a matter of months. I'm really gald we recognised the failure of the experiment, but, like others, I worry we may be saddled with the fall out for some time.

Something I posted in my post. IMHO both he and Gillett hit the wall at about 75 mins. Didn't look like a knock (but could well be wrong) and you're right in that there was a patch when he passed to the opposition 4 or 5 times on the trot. We was kept on a bit too long, but no harm done. A question I would have is why these young lads run out of steam at this point??? I would have thought that these are close to their prime (being 23 & 21) and although they have still to develop fully, I would have thought stamina wouldn't be one of the problems. Is it because this is their first season playing at this level and playing such a run of games and they're not used to it? Was our training regime, particularly pre season, poor?

Les was the big fella with glasses in the Technical Area at the end. Fairly tall and shall we say, portly!!!! He's the gofer who does all sorts around the Club and Dressing Room (I think!!). Woggy is much more dimnutive and I have to say i didn't see him (could well be wrong though).

Are you sure????? Describe who you think Woggy is, cos I reckon you're getting confused with Big Les.

I don't like age!!!!!! Being saved by a dead sheep doesn't have the same ring about it. Good spot;)

Deffo Size, who once again was immense, but Gillett is not someone I rate. I accept he gets stuck in, but after that think he is fairly limited and he hit a wall on about 70 mins today. I think his enthusiasm and "get stuck in" attitude masks a poor player. All about opinions because, like you, a couple of mates were really praising him, whilst me and another weren't impressed.

A good performance, not as good as the Preston game, but then again Cardiff looked a much better team than Preston, so arguably it was a better win. A bit of a sht that some of the others won, but then again it is now in our own hands. Davies made a couple of good saves, but all in all it was a tight game with not many chances for either side. The defence looked very good and upfront we were always alert and up for it. The midfield was OK, but not as strong as up front and at the back. Our legs went on about 70 mins and Gillett and McGoldrick ran out of steam big time which was a bit of a worry. Definite penalty for us us, although they could have had one towards the end!!! Once again the wise old heads led the way with Saeijs, Euell, Skacel, Peryy & Saga leading by example. Skacel in particular was very good and was always talking, getting the lads to calm down and barking out instructions (don't want to be negative, but it just makes the early part of the season even more mental!!!). As for player marks: Davis - 7 - A couple of good saves, but not much else James - 7 - A better game for him, although I did notice that when Lallana went walk about, he does get left isolated Saeijs - 8 - Very composed, rugged when necessary and up for it Perry - 8 - A great foil for Saeijs and up for it. Skacel - 8.5 - Led by example, geed everyone up, confident and composed on the ball. Lallana - 6 - Some glimpses of skill, but not his best game Gillett - 7 - Got stuck in, but his legs went too early IMHO McGoldrick - 6 - Got stuck in, but then sloppy and concede possession too many times, but then again he's not a centre midfielder Surman - 7.5 - Best of the midfield for me. Mixed battling qualities and skill well. Saga - 8 - Looked sharp, gave us an outlet and put them under pressure. Euell - 8 - Led from the front and with Saga he ensured we defended from the top. subs: Schneiderlin - 6 - Didn't really do too much Wright Phillips - 7 - Looked bright and worked hard to give us an outlet Liptak - 5 - Probably not fair as he was only on for 5 mins, but he reminded me of bambi meets Ali Dia Two big away games and arguably even 2 points could be OK, but with Blackpool, Forest & Plymouth having two home games, which is a bit of a bu.gger, we may need more than that. Norwich are away twice, which is positive news as they're having a mare.

Even then Phil I worry that the view will just be "there but for the grace of God etc etc etc" and everyone will just carry on as normal. I think there has to a fundamental overhaul of the game, but I just don't think the big clubs will go for it, nor can I see who will start the ball rolling. It would appear most are on selfish mode.

But I think what Lordswood was getting at and something I have mentioned before, was that when we were at the top table being fed handsomely, I don't remember much debate, let alone support on here for restructuring the game and in particular the amount of money being pumped into the Premiership and not cascaded down. Whilst we may have had a degree of sympathy for clubs like Bradford, Leicester, Ipswich et al, I only think it was when we got relegated did we start to look at the bigger problem. And I think many people have identified that it is a bigger problem, that needs bigger solutions, but I just can't see the "Big" clubs going for it, neither can I even see the medium clubs going for it. I'm not sure what it will take to change and I just can't see what will kick start it off.

LOL. Was that the occasion in the Itchen South/Chapel corner then???? You've suddenly lost your cool, calm demeanour and have now morphed back into your Sundance Beast mode. Manji, SOG, Stanley and now the Beast. What a motley crew we have on our hands LMFAO.:smt048:rolleyes::smt048

Bacon sarnie all over the keyboard time LOL You never fail to live up to your reputation do you LMFAO. Being insulted by you is like being savaged by a dead sheep (in fact I reckon Geoffrey Howe is slightly more assertive and threatening;)).

And it quite clearly cuts both ways, with posters on "both sides of the fence" very often being just as guilty as each other. For every Scooby, there's a Stanley, etc etc etc (cue Stanley going off on one again;)). The problem is that so many either fail to see it, ignore it, or only identify one part of it so that they can use it in their quest to be "proved right" on this forum.

I agree, and I don't think there is any replacement for seeing the games in the flesh or on the box, but even then it comes down to individual's perceptions and opinions. So when Alain Perrin thinks he has seen more good than bad football at St Mary's, I certainly don't think he is lying or making it up, he's just calling it as he sees it (and everyone's threshold, perception, standard, insight, expectations, eyesight;), etc etc etc are all different) which is fair enough. Similarly, I honestly think it has not been a good season for results or standard of play. As it is I probably only get to see 50% of our games each season (as I don't do mnay aways anymore), so I'm hardly in a position to really comment on the overall progress anyway!!!!!

From my experience, the demographics of the Welsh Rugby Team's supporters and those of the Bluebird's supporters are not the same!!!!!!!

When we went blue in 1980 I don't remember much fuss about the fact it was the supposed colour of our rivals, but then again I think that was more to do with our rivals than anything else. At that time, Portsmuff weren't really our rivals. We had only played them 4 times in about 20 years and whilst we were getting promoted, playing at Wembley and having the likes of Keegan gracing The Dell, they were hanging around the lower divisions (I think they were even in the Fourth Division when Keegan was unveiled). They just weren't on our radar and we even had more of a rivalry with Brighton around that era!!!!!! Personally have preferred the Yellow and Blue combination for a number reasons (Southamptonshire!!!, Wembley 76 & 79).