gio1saints

Sry Badger. Channon is a Saints superstar but I never felt he was as good as MLT. And I thought Shilts as a goalie was more world class than Channon. Some of mine ARE dubious- are Mane&Bale really valud Saints players? - but there’s no denying they won more medals after saints than we have ever had in our entire history. I claim a slice of the credit for saints and rank them high accordingly. Poor reason perhaps but ho hum.

Stevie Williams is my favourite saints player of all time. Just loved his attitude. nobody close to his mf tenacity since then imo. Bad move to Arsenal and being played out of position for England put paid to him. So not quite in my top twenty best players overall. Rodney’s brother Danny was much better - imo.And he’s pretty close too. Fastest player I’ve seen at Dell. I’ve never seen a Channon highlights video ( unlike numerous mlt montages) but his goal celebration is certainly #1 all time for saints and he’s been / was v influential as an Eng player. Apologies for my spelling VVD incorrectly but I did expect pedantry of that nature so no harm done. 😁

Yes T it’s entirely subjective and there’s no clear rules just my top of the head opinion. You can make up your own criteria, for fun, and see how it matches up. Someone like Bale and Mane did v little for us for instance but got wardrobes full of medals. Mark Wright good shout. It was not his fault he got his leg broke in the semi. Always liked him The ginger Beckenbaur.

Discussion on Adam Lallana elsewhere got me thinking on this as I’d say he is in the top twenty. But where? And what’s the criteria? Future /previous glory at other clubs / internationally can make a big difference - I’m going to give it a try off top of my head so apologies for missing some out and I’m allowed to come back and edit these names! 1. MLT ( no arguing allowed) 2. Shearer ( mainly for England and Premiership goals) 3. Shilton ( our best ever goalie so also no arguing allowed) 4.Bale ( who won EVERYTHING as a player) 5. Paine ( appearances) 6. Keegan Eng captain & pfa player of the year AT Saints! 7. Channon 8. Ball ( he won a World Cup so don’t argue!) 9. Van Dyke ( our best ever CB) 10. Ron Davies legend 11. Mane multiple title winner 12. Adam! 13. Sir Rickie Lambert (because) 14. Luke Shaw 15. Theo 16. JWP ( direct free kicks and consecutive matches) 17. Tadic (class) 18. Jose Fonte 19. Chivers 20 Bates/Franny legend. 🤣 That was my first off top of my head version. So please calm down it’s only for fun. Now to check google ChatGPT grok Siri and Alexa plus no doubt get schooled by MLG and Saints historians shortly! 😇

Saints got £25m for Adam in 2014. Compare that to popular top players like KWP who have seen out their contract and we get £fiddly squat. I suppose IF KWP had said I want a move 12 months ago - and we found out he’d been eye fluttering a team for quite a while but got £15m -£20m say for him he, too, would be regarded in a bad light. Not one ball he kicked one shot or tackle or even goal or dribble he ever made on the pitch for Saints would count for anything versus the impression he had dumped us for a better model he’d been chatting up behind our back - and forget that SFC actually made some money on it. The notion that how good your PR machine is will determine how supporters perceive you is now set in stone. What the guy does on the pitch relegated to nerd territory. Adam did great for us on the pitch, 283 times, greater than most players saints have ever had, certainly top twenty maybe even top ten. He IS one of the earliest prototypes of “if you do well at Saints you can get a move to a big club and win cups and medals” . It’s a model we still subscribe to today, obviously. And one that he is well placed to elucidate upon to our young players coming through today.

We’ve had a mere handful of Class midfield players in last thirty years and Adam was one of them. If you are talking about skills from midfield he was better than Tadic and JWP should be delighted to clean his boots and as for erm Will Smallbone and Flynn Downes ahem…I’m not sure in last thirty -forty we’ve had better - other than MLT of course. Worth looking up. I Count Walcott, Mane and Bale as playing different positions for a start and surely you cannot argue Schneiderlin or Houjberg are anywhere near.. Point is he’s the closest to excellence and an actual WINNER we’ve had in decades so I’m glad he’s staying - regardless of wether some of youse are still funny about why he fucked off to earn more money and win the premiership and the champions league play Workd Cup and become England best international player if 2016 etc. He is A proven Winner. A Champion. And he is at SFC. Coaching the players. GOOD!

We should get anybody whose first name is Josh. FOUR out of the top ten goals and assist machines in the Championship last year were called Josh. Three points if you can name them all without google. 😁

I’m not sure anyone wants to read an essay on sport psychology here so perforce I oversimplify. My view is that our EPL squad was really badly assembled. Largely due to the fuck up that was the aftermath of Wilcox leaving. We had Too many players NOT on an upward trajectory. Players like Jan, Jack, BBD, TP, Adam, Ryan, Ross, Will, Flynn, Joe, Lumley and Alex, Manning, Bree, Charlie Taylor, Gronbaek even Archer. Far too many obviously not at the level nor ever going to be. And perhaps even AA with benefit of hindsight also in the list but he deserved the chance imo. We cannot let that recur. Even if it appears to compromise performance short term in the championship.

Exactly right. I know that many feel pro footballers are ridiculously well paid to do an enviable, easy job - so should not need “motivating” or buying into “projects”. 11 individuals chucked on a pitch and told “you are being paid millions to be good-so be good” is basic level 1 management. Adding motivation including but in addition to just money is level two and upwards. Average players can become good Good players, great. With the right motivation. At Saints we will benefit by recruiting players specifically playing to get into the EPL - they will appreciate in value quicker and hopefully be EPL ready - unlike last time. I personally think AA will be sold because he probably will never be EPL ready - but the pragmatist in me says keep him because he cooks in the championship and he may have to swallow his pride and know he is likely to be moved on- but at least moved on as a winner not as a miserable loser.

You think Saka, Haaland and Salah are available? 🤭

Good start from MF. Looks a class act, as usual.

Yup well and truly

Mattie F starting v Netherlands shortly at right midfield. Shows he’s a first choice midfielder for what is a very strong Portugal u21 team. Given how strong the senior team midfield is it might be a while until he gets the chance to play a full international - but he surely will do do. And what will be his value then? Good luck Mateus and Forza Portugal! 🇵🇹 btw- interesting match up tactically with the Dutch in a 433 versus a 41212 with MF at what was once called inside right it seems. Think it’s his best position but he could almost play anywhere up front or mf for saints and still be our best player!

They cannot afford to buy that guy AND keep both Sainz and Sargent. One or both will def be leaving. Probably both.

Hopefully for Saints it’s a case of TP transfer fee + KS transfer fee = BS transfer fee. Chances of it happening though < 5% sadly. Not when Forest Porto and Atletic bilbao all interested - even if his current wages are achievable for us ( currently £15k pw but that’s gonna shoot up wherever he goes ) Perfect #1 choice for us if KS leaves and ditto the goal scoring machine that is TP. But sadly not going to cross the line I fear. A winger? Who SCORES!! Damn that’s rare! 🤭

Tyler and Kameldeen had nobody to pass to up front that could hold it and give it back. They barely had a midfield that could do that at times apart from Mat. Both would benefit from playing in a better team, with a proper striker. Nicking the ball on the edge of our penalty area like KS had to do so many times and then have to go past three just to get some space was only way he’d get a sniff if the ball - just pointless. Having Tyler labouring to cover a left winger attacking us or “ putting in a defensive shift” another plain waste of resources. They are both good attacking players and when they are in a proper team you will see that.

The mosh pit was halfhearted attempts by (mostly) over excited elderly in some cases supported by their sons and daughters.It was beautiful irony. I’m glad Stuart Pearce was there to enjoy it. I personally thought Stranglers were better but that was until I, belatedly, realised that Russell Martin, sans beard, was playing bass for Buzzcocks. See them in a whole new light now.

That’s Sekou Maras twin brother ffs.

Yup agree. Think he’s on about £55k pw so paying that plus a chunky loan fee gives him a year to show he can cut it in English football. An obligation to buy like with THB may make sense. I’m certain Still knows who he is and what he’s capable of. If we lost Tyler and Mateus to big fees but got oreilly in on loan I’d say fair enough, reluctantly, a team with Mateus O’reilly and Tyler on the other hand. Now that would be worth paying to watch!

Just a thought after reading that Matt o’reilly has been linked with Roma after a disappointing first year at Brighton : He’s not been played in his favoured position (8), apparently, and has said he’s unhappy. And apparently open to a move. He cost them £21m - so we are not paying that ( well I’m 90% confident we are not!) - but given our strong interest last year it does not sound totally mad to suggest he might be somebody we would love to have on loan if available - and of course would be a guaranteed starter - especially given Mateus and Tyler employment status at SMS may be changing. I think he’d be a fantastic fit at Saints if he took up the challenge but I suspect there’s a lot better and wealthier clubs than us would take him as a loan- or even as an attacking midfielder punt - and that’s if Brighton even let him go.

Just a thought after reading that Matt o’reilly has been linked with Roma after a disappointing first year at Brighton : He’s not been played in his favoured position (8), apparently, and has said he’s unhappy. And apparently open to a move. He cost them £21m - so we are not paying that ( well I’m 90% confident we are not!) - but given our strong interest last year it does not sound totally mad to suggest he might be somebody we would love to have on loan if available - and of course would be a guaranteed starter - especially given Mateus and Tyler employment status at SMS may be changing. I think he’d be a fantastic fit at Saints if he took up the challenge but I suspect there’s a lot better and wealthier clubs than us would take him as a loan- or even as an attacking midfielder punt - and that’s if Brighton even let him go.

One not too often discussed nuance of the window is the difference between wholesale squad change and incremental squad change. Many on here would be happy for the former. In other words get rid of lots of the current squad ( but god knows how) & bring in lots of new players with no “scar tissue”. Maybe a 60-70% change overall. An equal number would keep some of “ the ones that proved they can do a job at Championship level “ , just sell the inevitable gems plus a fair few that were squad fillers. That’s maybe a 40% change overall. And then a minority might argue that the current squad, taking out the loan returnee /contract ending players and the obvious few selling ones is good enough with a few decent quality transfers in. Ie about a 20-30% change. Don’t forget- the new Manager counts as part of the turnover. I have no accurate idea who the 2 in c is going to be for instance or what role the rest of the coaching staff have or do not have. I think we will probably go down the middle path - though the first option feels more exciting it’s also more risky and the last option may seem a little too passive and though it’s probably financially cheaper at outset it may not be as cost effective as the middle way.

If what @Farmer Saintis so eloquently stating is true then the logical deduction is that, far from being feckless useless fools, SR are, in fact, gaming the system and not inexpertly either. And this season might see first flowers blooming from that. One might also deduce , if premise is true, that they believe navigating the hinterland between Championship and EPL can be a profitable enterprise in the medium to longer term. And they mean to reap that profit - in that relatively unheralded market, for investors. Furthermore, that this profitability ( or economically sustainable if you prefer) is relatively unreliant upon Saints being anything more than just good enough to go up every now and again. it’s NOT about actually winning the league or getting into Europe or a cup - those are all once in a lifetime bonuses- it’s about making a reliably consistent profit from the business of football.

You’ve just succinctly described one of the strangleholds that the wealthiest clubs of the EPL have on us. The loan system, ostensibly helpful to teams like us, simultaneously guarantees disruption to squad after squad once they leave. That Disruption undermines clubs that cannot afford the stockpile of talents that the Chelsea’s and Man City’s have and basically, as you describe, have to fix the house whilst repairing the foundations year after year. The big clubs - and their Managers- can concentrate on just fixing the house. Southampton FC and all the other non elite clubs are just tarted up Academies for the big boys. Nothing more. When we are told winning the Championship playoff is the most valuable match in world football it’s true on one level - but it’s also the classic magicians trick of distraction creating the illusion that it’s not a fixed system, fixed in favour of the biggest, wealthiest clubs. We won the worlds most valuable football match and yet - look at the state of us.

Do you think he is a Will Still system player though? My understanding is that WS is fairly pragmatic but generally likes to press high. The Flynn I saw v Arsenal was pressing them in their penalty area second half. Like he was auditioning.