Teamsaint1

Downes will be high on the list of suspects, but I thought he was our best player on Saturday ( not hard) and I can't think of many occasions when he has let us down when starting. Which doesn't of course mean he isn't disruptive behind the scenes, and he obviously had the Juric issue, so he has a lot to prove. Incidentally, Mads was just awful on saturday. Given a tough job but he really did nothing of any use at all , other than one interception IIRC.

There are interesting comparisons to be made for those of us old enough to remember 1974. After the way this season has started we are clearly in this for the long haul. The best that can be hoped for from this season is to create a basis for success, some stability at all levels, and a financial re-set to get us ready for a proper promotion push next season, and potentially life without parachute payments. That means more selling than buying ( do-able) integrating young players, and cheap older heads or loans. £10m gambles probably ought to be a thing of the past already. But as you say , the board ( as they did in 1974, albeit in a very different world) need to decide if WS is showing them enough to back him and see out a tough season while change starts to happen. i’m not seeing much that inspires confidence, but how would Lawrie have done in a fans poll say at Xmas 1974 ? We are in desperate need of stability, professional experience and vision. Changing the manager right now needs to be done only if he really has been shown not be up to the job. And there is a lot going on that we never see or hear about, most importantly manager relations with senior players. We may well need to be patient. But not too patient.

Loyalty is all we have. People will be travelling in their thousands to Loftus Road hoping that the team does us proud. Probably a vain hope at this stage , but so it goes.

I completely agree about management. After 3 or four years of mostly shambles and instability, it isn't unreasonable to cut the management a bit of slack. We all know from our own work that things can't necessarily be transformed from chaos overnight. But you can start with simple and achievable ( settled back 4/5, buying a half competent striker ) and go from there. The absence of Aribo from the group that went to Blackburn is one of the most unprofessional things I can remember happening in a very long time , heads really should roll for that.

Alfie had a lot to say, and presumably even more that he felt he couldn’t say about the players and their attitudes. He must have more insight than most, and that is really worrying. Not that most of us aren’t worried already.

We really do have enormous problems. Three years of absolute chaos has finally caught up with us. There is little elite level expertise at the top of club outside of the immediate first team . We likely have the basis of a decent squad at this level ( ignoring the desperate need for at least one more decent striker), but this time it looks as though it is going to take time to build a proper team, and a winning mentality. God knows what it is like in the dressing room at the moment, but I’d be certain that the team spirit and cohesion is absolutely miles off what Bristol City , for example, have. And without that you are stuffed.

That was my last visit there to see Saints, though I did see City 4 Wrexham 4 in the cup a few years later, which was fun. The cup really mattered in those days. Anyway, perhaps Jay R will turn out to be the new Channon

I’m as impatient as anybody to see an upturn in our fortunes. Not seen a win since Wembley, and thought we were very patchy today. Maybe the defence is gradually improving, which with such a mediocre bunch of strikers it really needs to. And hopefully the manager is working out which players he can get the most out of. But Still is following three or four years of mostly shambles and constant change. We do really need some stability, cohesion, team building. Promotion this season isn’t the be all and end all, but building for the future is absolutely vital. I’m not overly impressed with Still at the moment, but if it is going to work, he needs time and the support of fans whose patience is already worn very thin.

Going via Basingstoke/Reading isn't too bad ?

One of the lessons of the utter ( and unnecessary) shambles of last season was that , terrible though we were, and ordinary ( very ) though Onuachu was at PL level , when we had an actual CF who could do at least some CF things, we looked rather more like a proper football team. With the money at our disposal this season, we didn't need to buy a CF genius , but we did need somebody who could be there to do a proper job when Ross Stewart isn't . If we could have got hold of somebody of real class so much the better, but if not, somebody decent would have been enough to spearhead a proper promotion challenge . So you are right.

And this could be a relatively easy season to get automatic. Toothless up front, and the present back three have at least 3 big errors in them every week. We just do basic stuff badly way too often. And the bench we have for this level needs to be used much better.

I know that formations have to be fancy these days,but the thought had occurred to me that while we are struggling, just going old fashioned 442 with those two up front might not be the worst idea. Would be a struggle to fit Azaz in, but with our squad some players will be disappointed each week.

Smallbone making a decent impact as a sub.

I can’t see how Still”s plan is any different from Howard Wilkinson era 4-2-4. in which case you need to keep it simple, have our least bad big CF ( Stewart) with AA alongside, the two “ best” wingers, the two toughest CMs, and let the back four concentrate on defending, supposing that they are up to the task, which is dubious at this stage. I see nothing at all that suggests that WS can create a playoff team out of this expensive mess. Almost nothing looks any good.

And we matched our result against the skates from 2011-2012.......