pap

Our school was merged with The Deanery in 1989. We had about a year of fighting while the new pecking order was established, but it was Deanery vs Cantell more than anything else (believe it or not, plenty of white kids from The Deanery). Bullying is bullying, and a kid choosing to take his or her own young life is always tragic under any circumstances. One of my best mates took his own life at 13. Truly gutting for everyone around him, something that'll probably haunt his family for the rest of their lives.

Southport is a very nice town to live in, Lord D. One of the undiscovered gems of the country, and nowhere near as pricey as Formby, the footballer's town of choice. ms pap's uncle ran a pub in the city centre for a couple of decade. Only problem is that it's a bit like Resident Evil on pension day

Small guide to local slang. Plastic scouser = someone from Wirral Manc = mancunian Wool(lyback) = anyone between Liverpool and Manc Shandy drinking southern bastard = Southerners, including me All depends if you can handle a bit of banter.

Don't worry. If you ever came up here with that attitude, I don't think you'd live long

It's not nice up that way.

I've been out of work for six months total in almost 20 years. That was just after the dot com bubble burst. I'll happily admit that it was tough finding a job after Uni in the city, but then that was the same down South after the bubble burst. I think I've been very frank about the state of the 'Pool when I got there. Even so, it was better then than Southampton is now. As for the constant comparisons between Southampton and Liverpool; they're inevitable. I've lived over half my life in one and half in the other, more or less. You write about what you know. I completely accept that it's a personal viewpoint too. What suits me won't suit a Southampton lad who likes all the southern sh!t. I've qualified here, it's given me my higher education, my livelihood, my missus and kids and my standard of living. So yeah, bias - definitely - but Bazza is right. Lots of people come here and never go back. I tried in the early 2000s and spent three of those six months in unemployment looking for work in Southampton. Eventually went back to Liverpool after landing a job at a major US firm. Suffice to say, my personal experience doesn't bear your account out. It may sound good on the terraces, but people do actually work up here

Regarding pubs, was in 1994. However, I've been back to the city several times a year. Certainly not unique to Southampton, but most of the local pubs I used to drink in have gone. The Gate and the Crown & Sceptre have both been flattened, the Hampton ( aka Old Black Cat ) has been turned into a Maccy Ds (edited this bit - early here soz). The Hobbit had a late licence even when I was in the city, as did many parts of town, but town was typically filled with jumped up arseholes looking to start trouble. The closest I tend to get these days is Bedford Place. How is it more expensive than anywhere else? Hmm. Let's try a tenner for a two mile taxi ride for starters. Perhaps we can then look at the grand a month my sister gets charged for her former council house on the Flower Estates versus the 730 I pay for my detached four bedroom detached gaff in L12. The difference between buying a house has gotten much smaller since I arrived here, but there are still tons of areas where your money goes so much further than in Southampton. The Liverpool 1 comparisons are obviously made with no knowledge of the city. It's a completely different beast to West Quay and the dreadful out-of-town shopping areas around it. FFS, even the US, originator of the car-essential shopping malls, doesn't pull that trick. Downtown is downtown. Liverpool 1 glues the city centre together. One side brings you out on the Albert Dock and Echo Arena, another brings you into Church Street, while yet another brings you out into the central (and beautiful) business district. Moreover, it's changed the character of the city centre in a positive way. I've picked my girls up from concerts at the Echo Arena at 11pm. On a weekend, there are still tons of families enjoying the space. Points kinda taken about the relative size of the cities, but again, I'm not sure you appreciate how much the city has improved in 20 years. I was in no way culturally prepared for what greeted me in 1994. Whole streets boarded up or fenced off, large areas with high unemployment. To this day, there are still shops in some areas of Liverpool where you simply can't pick anything up. The shop attendant stands behind a perspex barrier which wraps across the entire interior of the shop. I've just moved from an area where all the off licences were like that. Even so, I'd still take Liverpool '94 over Southampton 2013. It was better then than Southampton is now, which really illustrates how Southampton has stood still or worse, travelled in the completely wrong direction. I've seen your points about other places getting public money pumped into them, but I don't accept them. Those cities were left to rot for over a decade when the south was prospering. The key difference for me is honesty. People knew they were living in sh!tholes, and improved. Sotonians by contrast tend to be very defensive about the qualities of their city, which is ultimately self-defeating. The first step to addressing any problem is recognition that it exists, and while a large part of the city is in collective denial about its attributes, not much will change.

My advice to every Sotonian is travel with an open mind, bring some of the best of those places back with you, and try to do something positive in the city as a result, even if it's as simple as learning the simple lesson of having a good fkn time. North Carolina is like heaven to me. Everyone is friendly. People like to know who you are. Everyone's got weed, and no-one really gives a f*ck what you look like as long as you're not an arsehole. The one thing I will say about my hometown brethren is that most people are capable of showing a bit of class. However, that changes very quickly when some are confronted by new ideas. ms pap, who is pretty much the polar opposite of me - i.e. considerate and leads with her heart, and genuinely one of the nicest people you'll ever meet, was treated disgracefully by my fellow Sotonians on account of her Liverpudlian accent. That's either a failure of imagination or a slavish subscription to well-worn stereotypes. I'm not singling Southampton out for that; much of the south is the same. Our city is special though, one of the few places in the South to turn red during a general election. It's a blooming shame that culturally, many of us still have such an insular attitude. We're supposed to look out, not in. It's no accident that my best friends are cool with all that sh!t, but a little disappointing that so many other people aren't. I bet the people in Merthyr don't think they're the dogs bollocks.

Oh, and actual banter. Not just a few words that a prelude to a bust-up between beer-heads.

If you're having to justify Southampton by including what's near it, you've lost the argument. I ended up in Liverpool because of Uni. I wanted to get as far away from the South as was possible. Even then, when it was a much grottier city, Liverpool yanked my pants down and gave me a good seeing to. For me, it's an attitude thing. I prefer the southern US states to the northern ones, where the north/south rudeness thing is very much flipped. I don't like the introduction culture down there. Average looking women think they're f*cking stunnas, and they're really not. The pubs used to close on time, even most of the local pubs I drank in. I like the Hobbit and Bevois Valley, although my favourite pub would actually be the Bent Brief. I also loved living in the Polygon, because apart from Bevois Valley, it was the only place that had a bit of life in it. The South is not good at cities. Most of the other total sh!tholes are down that way too. I don't think Southampton is as bad as some of those, but it's expensive, got a crappy night club culture, an out of town shopping centre in the middle of f**king town. As for all these nice areas? You don't see a soul in most of them. Highfield's alright - the Crown is a good pub - but seriously - what is there to do in the posh end of Bassett? I'm always happy when I get back, but as I said earlier, it's because of friends ( most of my best mates live outside the city now ) and family, which you can't really get anywhere else. Southampton's got nothing going for it (for me). I'm unconvinced by the arguments in its favour. Give me a good Northern city with friendly people, decent music and a city centre that inspires you, rather than f**king LeisureWorld.

If it wasn't for friends, family and footy, doubt I'd ever go to Southampton much. I do enjoy hearing people speak in our accent though.

I've had Arctic Monkeys "AM" on repeat all day. NME weren't being over-generous when they gave it a 10/10. Nowhere near as "heavy" as their first couple of albums, but damn it's good.

I think the thing that really brought O'Connor into it was being cited as an influence. Don't know this for sure, but Cyrus' thinking is probably as simple as "she has short hair like me". Or maybe her people knew what sort of character O'Connor was and decided that it'd be good marketing. Who knows? I thought it was bad enough when Avril Lavigne referred to herself as "punk" (translation: pop singer in grottier garments). Cyrus can't know anything about her career save Nothing Compares 2 You (which tbf, is what most people know her for). She's tweeting pictures of O'Connor ripping up pictures of Pope John Paul II to illustrate that she is somehow imbalanced, even though that action was a protest about the cover-up of child abuse in the Catholic church. I dlsliked Billy Ray Cyrus back in the day, but I do have to wonder what sort of father would allow his daughter to be exploited in this way. Ok, she's an adult; he can't tell her what to do, but he's on the box defending her.

I expect the thinking is the same as it always is. Push the boundaries a little bit further to generate publicity. She's already in the nip in that video. I expect the sledgehammer is supposed to be something that represents something else. It's not necessarily old pervs that'll go for that stuff anyway. Probably designed to appeal to hormonal teenage boys.

I don't normally go for celebrity tittle tattle, but I am interested in the ongoing feud between Miley Cyrus and Sinéad O'Connor. Miley is the daughter of Achy Breaky Heart singer Billy Ray Cyrus, and has spent much of her life in the public eye due to being the lead in Hannah Montana (a humourless Disney Channel live action series ). She has even featured on here, in the thread "Hot daughters of famous people". Post Hannah Montana, she hit the headlines for "twerking" against Robin Thicke during the MTV Video Music Awards. Following the release of "Wrecking Ball", a video in which she appears naked and licks sledge-hammers, she cited Sinéad O'Connor as an influence, which prompted O'Connor to write this open letter:- http://www.sineadoconnor.com/2013/10/open-letter-to-miley-cyrus/ Miley shot back with tweets that mocked O'Connor's bi-polar disorder, pulling up some tweets from a couple of years ago when she was at a low. O'Connor is now on her third open letter and legal action looks set to ensue. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/sinead-oconnor-miley-cyrus-second-open-letter_n_4043654.html?ir=Entertainment And a third.... https://www.facebook.com/sineadoconnor/posts/601024469936545 My interest? Perhaps I'm getting old, but its a bit jarring to see someone my kids watched on the Disney Channel turn into such an overt sexual presence. Kids will see her as some kind of role model, and in a time when children are exposed to sexual imagery far too young, this is a step too far. What next? Penetrative sex during dress changes? Conspiracy hat on for a second, at least one side is using this for publicity; both have something to promote. Cyrus is restyling herself as a hip hop queen while O'Connor is on tour. I personally don't think O'Connor is doing this to advance her career. She's had a long history of being outspoken on a number of issues, often to the detriment of her music career. I think O'Connor is bang on in most of her analysis. Opinions will vary, of course.

We are. Taken in spirit that was intended. That's actually a step down from "f*ck your wife". I'll just get ms pap to give Super Michael a scouse slap if he acts up again

Best behaviour, Super Michael. We don't want a repeat of the "Wigan incident".

Gotta be done. Bring weed.

No, it's not. I honestly don't like being this much of a c**t. By all means, attack the points on the thread - but when you've got people who should clearly know better dredging up crap from other threads solely to diminish a poster, when it has nothing to do with what I've written here, it is difficult to hold back - because if you say nowt, their point stands. It's becoming borderline obsessive, and yes, we should all grow up.

It can be argued that everything is perception, VW. I wasn't pouring scorn on you as a poster, but I'm tired of the two rights make a wrong argument that is repeatedly peddled on here, along with the abrogation of personal responsibility that is an inevitable part of "team politics". You would not let a murderer off the hook because someone had committed a more brutal murder. The Mail doesn't get off with spinelessly attacking Miliband because of the Mirror's stance on Thatcher. I don't accept the "they're all at it" defence, largely because that's part of the problem. The funny thing is, I have mates across the political spectrum. Put them in a room together and usually, there is more they'll have in common that separates them.

It's almost indefensible, I agree. However, I entered this debate on-topic, and stayed on topic until Tim decided to bring the off-topic stuff into play. If it makes you feel any better, I'm not proud - but it's a fire vs fire thing. Sorry you had to see it.

Excellent result. Didn't sound like a top performance, but damn, I'll take it.

Haven't seen the game, but it sounds like we mugged them. Highlights should be on after the Chelsea game.

YES!!! And breathe.

Can't really watch the game, but have just seen Ads' goal during the highlights. Listening to the audio on SaintsPlayer. Sounds a bit edgy.