Johnny Bognor

I do think that 'we' are also to blame to some extent, but when Brown was on a borrowing + spending spree, he was clearly not setting a good example. Spouting total carp about "no more boom and bust" only gave those who are not economically savvy a false confidence and in my book that was fraudulant and the **** should be put before the courts. I clearly remember talking with colleagues about how lending 8 times the amount of earnings and providing 125% mortgages was only going to end in tears. You didn't need to be Chancellor of the Exchequer to see the car crash that would happen and he was more than happy to turn a blind eye, especially when he had the power to stop it. This was criminal negligence and should have seen the **** in jail. For me, it is less about Labour and more about the con artist who stood on a ticket of prudence. Prudence? Don't make me laugh

Very poor reporting from the Telegraph. Headline = John Maynard Keynes: Horror at Government's economic illiteracy Considering he died 64 years ago, I find it quite astounding.

This is one of those rare occasions when I completely agree with you BTF. His management style was awful, he couldn't sell (despite being a Sales Director) and he had no strategy. Knocking on people's doors to sell sausages was a complete waste of time.

The whole series was filmed last year, but because Sugar became Gordon's bum chum and an election was looming, the series was postponed until now.

Thanks Trousers, I think it is on the 442 thread. Do you know where the thread regarding Henry's signing is?

Was it Thames Ironworks FC?

...and the "come on you reds" whenever we got a corner!

I have just come back from Oktoberfest in Munich and I have never seen so many stupidly drunk people in any one place at any one time. I was shocked at how there was not one bit of bother or trouble whatsoever. When walking past people, they bump into you, push you and barge past. If I walked round any pub or nightclub here doing this, I would get into 5 scraps just going to the toilet. The whole experience left me bemused as on the whole, they were rude, yet no one reacted with any form of violence or confrontation (even though many were blind drunk). In the end, rather than getting wound up by it, I thought "when in Rome..." and so started pushing, shoving and barging people back. The whole experience was quite liberating.

Maybe in some areas, but there are plenty of claimants in Chichester + Bognor and I didn't see a "sold out" sign in the window of the job centre when I last drove by.

Right, I don't mean to be patronising, but I'll explain what happened in English. The crisis was triggered by sub prime mortgages going bad. The mortgage companies were lending money to people who were unlikely to pay it back - any economist will tell you that if you do that, they are likely to default. The regulators in the US (i.e. the Bush administration) allowed this to happen. In the UK, Brown turned a blind eye (no pun intended) to Northern Rock and the like offering 125% mortgages on income multples of 7 or 8 times annual income. G Brown allowed unprecendented consumer borrowing of £1.4 trillion and he actively encouraged this with his no more boom and bust bull. It was aways going to end in tears and he should stand trial for criminal negligence (as should Bush). As for the investment bankers, as I have said numerous times before, I believe that some in the system damn well knew what was going on when these sub prime mortgages were re-packaged and re-sold. It is akin to repacking food not fit for human consumption and passing it off as Tescos finest. Obviously, people should be locked up for this, perhaps sharing a cell with Brown and Bush. So there you have it, I have blamed Bush (of the right) and the bankers, but I will never let Brown off the hook. He misled the country and the markets with his no more boom and bust s-h-i-t He went on a massive borrowing spree before the crisis Sold of the gold reserves Failed to stop the economy overheating (the debt fuelled 'boom') Failed to stop completely irresponsible lending (remember he set up the Financial Suicide Authority - FSA to most people) Allowed unprecedented personal debt - £1.4 trillion of it He failed to deal with the Public Sector final salary schemes - with a net liability that is twice that of the financial crisis / recession Introduced more stealth tax than anyone in history Oversaw the increasing wealth gap between the rich and the poor Broke his own rules regarding balancing the books Broke his own borrowing rules before the crisis I thought I would share a leftie US presidential quote with you: "Part of the reason this crisis occurred is that everyone was living beyond their means—from Wall Street to Washington to even some on Main Street," Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said on Oct. 13 I could go on, but perhaps it is easier to blame the bankers.

How do you explain national debt going up to record levels (£500 billion) BEFORE 2007? I make that an increase of £200 Billion (up from the £300 billion inherited from the tories, which was incurred during a recession) after a long "boom". Will you at least hold Gordon responsible for this? I repeat, this £200 billion additional borrowing (and I am ignoring the fact that national debt fell in the first two years of his reign after following tory spending plans) was BEFORE the banking crisis/credit crunch/recession. How can this possibly be the bankers fault? I too blame bankers for part of the National Debt (and I have made my views known to the point where I believe some of them were criminal negligent and should be on trial) and the current defecit we face, but I also blame the other culprit(s). Why can't you lefties bring yourself to blame Labour (even if it is just partially)? Are you that blinkered? Are you that biased? Does union membership preclude you from thinking for yourself? Does logic desert you when you join the Labour party?

The lefties on here do my head in. Yes, the bankers screwed up and are PARTIALLY responsible for the National Debt and the Defecit. No one disputes that. However, New Labour are MOSTLY responsible for the position we are in as we had record National Debt BEFORE the Credit Crunch / Banking Crisis / Recession. This is without allowing for the fact that they failed to control / regulate the banks (who are partially responsible). Vince Cable is often credited with predicting the problem, however even Oliver Bleeding Letwin raised the issues in the Commons around the same time (in his "Our Green and Pleasant Land is in the Red" speech Feb 2004). If that knob can see it coming, what is New Labour's excuse? As for Lord this and Lord that, there is only one name to mention here.......Gordon Brown.........he has caused far more damage than 1000 Ashcrofts and Goodwins put together. You can blame both the Banks and New Labour or neither in my opinion (but the lefties would never have it that their precious Gordon had anything to do with it).

If the national debt caused by the bankers is £1500 per head, then what will we do about the £20,000+ per head caused by New Labour? Tax those that voted for them perhaps?

Well they won't bother with Fratton Park as there won't be enough people in it. There is also a risk that they could make improvements to the ground if high explosives are involved.

Indeed, I did a search on their history and found this http://www.blankwebpage.com/

This one??

Another company local to Chichester is: Wayne Kerr Electronics

At the Oving traffic lights, on the Chichester Bypass, you can see Beaver Tool Hire, which always makes me giggle. They usually do some funny road side advertising and a couple of years ago they had the strapline "Trim your bush with a Beaver Trimmer" underneath a female mannequin. After many complaints, they had to take it down. EDIT: Just found a picture More recently, they had Darth Vader with a garden fork along with the strapline "Use the Fork"

I believe you said "last" election which I took to mean the one that happened recently, however I will be sympathetic as your memory may be failing you

Slighty out of date, it was for 2001. Come on BTF, you're losing it. First you get your abc's wrong and now you can't read dates. I am getting concerned, I hope you are OK. As for the election campaign, Labour received the largest single donation of £1m from Unite: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tMKCTfCkE02GL0qqp0Rh3Lg#gid=1 Here is an overview, for those that are interested: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/apr/27/general-election-2010-electoral-commission-party-funding-data#data

True, but the private individual knows what he/she wants. Did the Union ballot their members before making the threat (i.e. is the Unions stance in line with what their membership?)?

Hmmm. The influence the unions hold is a lot more than just giving some dosh, blackmail plays its part too like threatening to withdraw party funding if their man isn't elected. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/7969112/Union-threatens-to-withdraw-funding-over-Labour-leadership-battle.html

Depends when you're going, but Oktoberfest is on in Munich at the moment

One of my cats is neurotic. He has been placed on a cat equivalent of valium. He is seriously chilled out at the moment

True, but this is an example where the differences between Public and Private sectors are most prominent. The BBC DG gets given billions of £££'s from the taxpayer and so is only really responsible for spending and product. If they need more cash, they just go to the government with the begging bowl. The ITV chief is ultimately responsible for having to build a strategy that brings home the bacon to pay for the channel - no money 'given' to them. It is far easier to be responsible for a budget that it is given to you compared to having to go out and bring in the revenues that provide any subsequent budgets (especially with the global down turn in advertising revenues). Ultimately spending someone else's money is easy, having to go out and find it in a competitive world is a completely different matter.