Polaroid Saint

Point of order: The Vikings absolutely 'got that far south'. St.Marys Stadium sits directly over the site of one of the first big Viking raids in England; the "Sacking of Hamwic" Although the 'sacking' really didn't do a lot for Hamwic (old town was pretty much abandoned following this), the English probably actually won. (What's really weird is that when they built St.Mary's and confirmed all this, they didn't excavate below the pitch, only the stands and footings. So all that history - including a properly ancient graveyard - is lying there under the feet of the players every game they play).

I don't think I have ever left early. No matter how bad my team are playing, how terrible or predictable the movie is or how honkingly awful the band are... ...but I am at home on the sofa, so I can just turn this off, right? Right?

Akachukwu has been the only really positive thing from that first half (in both senses of the phrase). I appreciate the opposition midfield is nowhere near as tough as we will face most weeks. But he has looked really encouraging as an option. Hold up play good, defensive play decent and forward play excellent; always looking for a quick pass or carry the ball forward. A very energy to Charles but possibly filling a 'Shea Shaped Hole' quite well. (And the Wellington / Leo combo is always fun. ) But otherwise it's lethargic and almost disinterested. All said still arguably a better first half 'performance' than the first two league games. 🤷

If we really need to shift players to get others in... ...Can we not loan (or sell) BBD etc to Goztepe?! 😉 Turkish Super Liga club that has, I heard, recently done quite well out of Saints players. Gets them off our books a bit earlier in the window (and then SR can still sell them on if anyone wants them after that). Is this not the sort of shady shenanigans the multi club model is for? Actually, maybe Valenciennes is more BBD's level. (No offence meant @ChristopheVAFC ) 😛

I didn't say I thought it was what we should be doing, or what I would do or what I want the club to do. So yeah, I agree with you! However, I do think it is very possibly what the club ARE doing. Or at the very least it's the base line they have set pending lack of suitable transfers (in/out) and the probable Tonda sanction.

I think it's more a case of splitting the season into two - "consolidation and repositioning" in the first half of the season, making up those points, getting a slightly different team and attitude settled and whatever compensating we have to do with the manager's status. Then, in second half of the season, but hopefully before Christmas we can start to push (as we did last year) and to achieve a league position and performances the squad is capable of, and to tidy/add to it further in Jan. That kinda fits Dragon's stated aims of getting the footballing side of the club sorted and, what I imagine is just as important to him the mid/long term of financial security and clout. I would hate to think it's a full season consolidation but splitting it up works on both counts. (If it works at all of course).

Agree to a very large extent. With the various clouds over us, we were not going to continue the momentum from last year. But have also done remarkably well (so far) to keep the bones of the team together. I suspect that the club, and in particular Dragon, recognise this and feel if we can don't get completely wiped out the first half of the season, we can refocus and potentially rebuild a little in January. I suspect, even if we lose another couple of key players, that we are still good enough not to completely collapse from a footballing perspective AND survive a probable Tonda ban. Then take a shot at the ridiculous 6 team play off second half of the season. This will also likely mean that even if we don't do it this season we will be one of the best placed teams to go up 27/28 (as we will be financially sorted, according to Dragon, by then and able to be more than competitive without parachute payments). So, yeah, this window is about consolidation and trimming the squad in order to compete 'enough' until January. Frustrating, but might make a lot of sense for the club medium to long term.

What annoys me most about this is that Elvis never wore a pink suit or shirt with that black shoulder/chest yoke. The Sunderland site is careful to say it merely "references his early pink and black style" etc, but that exact design is from the 2022 biopic. It's a bloody movie costume, FFS! Of all the great (and bizarre) things that Elvis did wear that they could have referenced - the actual Elvis Estate (and Sunderland and Hummel) have ripped off something only ever worn by Austin Butler in a film. Definitely as bad as finding one photo of sunset reflections on wave ripples and deciding the Solent is pink. I'm livid, I tell you, livid!

Think it is a bit weird how a few people are writting him off. If anything he is set up perfectly for a 'breakout season'. It's not an unusual thing at all to have a tricky transitional year, (especially coming from boyhood club) and for wingers to be better in year two. Still only 23. First year at Saints: 0 goals, 5/6 assists in the league - But he’d already managed 14 Championship assists at 21, and last season’s 0 goals came from around 35 shots (3xG). It was freakish and very doubtful that will repeat this season. Moe settle + more minutes + normal finishing + another year experience at the club. He doesn't need to 'improve' so much as regain composure and get a couple of early goals. If he actually improves too, could be a monster season. All depends how and how much he is used of course, but: 10 goal contributions is a safe bet. 12-15 goal contributions? very plausible.

However, from the Spider Graph posted the other day, it was statistically (when he played in the Championship last season) one of his strengths. Better than Lankshear in the posted comparison for sure and actually pretty decent for a 19/20 year old in this league. He will need to improve for sure to be like a wise old head like Larin, but having eight players around him will help.

Well, I guess, that "technically"... ...analysts from Turkish or French clubs would not be subject to any EFL 72hr scouting ban? 🤔

It's a Spider Graph (I think they probably call them something fancy in the world of footy analytics, like a Player Radar or something) anyway, What this one sort of shows (and given the minutes are similar, it's reasonably useful): Mubama is stronger all-round/physical forward profile. Lankshear: comparable player, with some potentially more interesting attacking numbers. Which, given what we want is fine. We want a classic link-up man to bring the midfielders and wingers up the pitch as well as a finisher. I wouldn't trust just this graph, but it's a decent comparison for sure.

But they're better at it and less likely to slip. Perhaps why it was put that way? Just playing a devilish advocate, here.

Quick redesign is, of course, very possible... ...But also very doubtful.

But he loves losers! That's how he wins. Convinces losers that he is one of them, so they vote for him. 'No one' likes all of Trump; but draft dodgers like him because he is a draft dodger, fraudsters like that he is a fraudster, racists like that he is a racist, predators like him as he is a predator, tax evaders like him because he evades tax, business failures like him because he is bad at business, braggart like that he brags, con artists admire a con artist, cheaters like that he cheats, liars like that he lies, misogynists like that he is a misogynist, losers like him because he is a big crybaby loser. When the majority of people can have at least one bad quality, they can relate to that one thing in Trump, and ignore or dismiss the rest. Of course, most people won't recognise or admit that, and very often not to themselves, but that is the psychologically behind his political success. (Sorry, wrong forum. But yeah.)

Falkland Islanders have per capita GDP eight (8) times that of an Argentinian. They can they put that on a banner if they want? . FWIW Gibraltarians have a per capita GDP three and half (3.5) times higher than an average Spanish national.

5-5 final score. 6-6 AET. Penalties go to 20-21. Not sure which way though. Put a bet on it. (Insurance bet on 7-4 to France in normal time) These 'pointless' games can be quite fun if you remember 'its just a game'... ...In fairness, I did once watch Boris cunting Johnson pull on an England shirt and rugby tackle a German ex international in a charity game at the Madjeski in Reading. None of those things represent proper football yet I still enjoyed the whole nonsense (they allowed booze in the stands). But, yeah, I really have no credibility here. FFS.

Don't care too much if others don't care, but understand that stance too. Hey, it's officially a competitive match. Winning would represent England's 'best place' in world cup history other than 1966 (4th in 2018, 4th in 1990). So history will be kind even if it all feels a bit pointless today. Be great for player mentality too going into the next proper competition (Euros) too. Oooh, it's three.

I feel seen. 🤣 And somewhat chastened, but I do still like the idea a colour block kit.

Home shirt is disgustingly adequate. That (probable) away shirt is adequately disgusting. Here's hoping that the third is a beauty, as it has been - in my own humble football shirt collector opinion - the last few years. Loved the pink, loved the spitfire jobbie etc. I hope it's a devilish colour wash type, badge, maker logo, sponsor n all. We haven't ever had one like that really. So that's my hope. (Plus - If we have a great season, they'll all be forgiven.)

English Football DNA... ...long post. Apologies, anyway: I read that Soccernomics book a while back and they made a very (very) compelling case for England being about the ninth or tenth best team in the world. Rankings fluctuate based on performances but the basic 'DNA' or a footballing nation only changes with systematic support and gradual improvement. There's lots of reasons why a footballing nation such as ours with all our history and relatively large population doesn't do as well as we should. Not least Cricket, Rugby and the education system. So, on that note. I blame the class system. (As I do for fucking everything because I'm a pinko commie anarchist or something). Anyway, I asked the AI fella who lives my phone, if this was still the case and he said: The short answer is: less so than when Soccernomics was first published. The original argument was never really "England are bad." It was that England consistently overestimated itself. Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski argued that, once you accounted for factors like population, footballing culture, wealth and historical performance, England looked more like the 8th to 10th strongest football nation, rather than a perennial favourite. That was a useful antidote to decades of "this is our year." A lot has changed since then. The biggest difference is England's youth development. After the failures of the 2000s, the FA invested heavily in: St George's Park. Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) academies. Better coaching qualifications. More technically focused youth football. The result has been a conveyor belt that simply didn't exist twenty years ago: Bellingham Saka Foden Palmer Rice Mainoo Gordon and many others. England have also become much more consistent at youth level, winning age-group World Cups and European Championships, which Soccernomics predicted should eventually feed through to the senior side. The senior results back that up: World Cup semi-final (2018) Euro finalists (2021) Euro finalists (2024) Deep run again at the 2026 World Cup under Tuchel, with England widely regarded as one of the four strongest sides in the tournament. The rating systems agree. England now sit around 4th in both FIFA and Elo, rather than hovering around 8th to 10th. That said, I think one part of the Soccernomics argument still holds. England's structural disadvantages haven't vanished: Football still competes with rugby and cricket in a way it doesn't in Spain or Argentina. Access to informal street football remains lower than in many countries. The Premier League is so wealthy that young English players can find first-team opportunities harder to come by. The English football culture and media still create extraordinary pressure around the national team. So I think the revised conclusion today would be: Around 2010: England were probably overrated by fans and media, and objectively about the 8th to 10th best football nation. Around 2026: England are genuinely among the top four to six football nations. They're not automatically the best, but they're no longer flattering to deceive. One thing Soccernomics got absolutely right is that footballing nations change slowly. France didn't become France because of one manager. Spain's golden era was the product of twenty years of coaching reform. Germany's post-2000 renaissance came from restructuring academies after Euro 2000. England's improvement looks very similar: a long-term change in the production line rather than a lucky generation. In fact, if Soccernomics were being rewritten today, I suspect England would be one of its success stories: an example of how a country's "football DNA" really can change, but only through patient, systemic investment rather than finding a single genius manager or a handful of exceptional players.

Tuchel did "a Southgate". Or did he? (Well, yes, he did). But, this is the thing with England; even IF @egg's dog was in charge, I'd bet they'd also make daft overly defensive changes too. Nails or not. It's the England Way. Going five at the back and taking Jeff off was the wrong decision today, but I also think 'we' did alright to get to this far in the World Cup overall. One day maybe we will have a different attitude. Maybe we need to win a Euros first. Anyway, When does the proper football start again?

I have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. Not a single shot on target of course. But a proper game of old school football. Tetchy and tactical. Scrapping but not scrappy. A bit of magic from both sides please in the second half (and maybe a bit of madness) and this will be a classic for the ages. Oh, and my boy (and Tuchel pet project) Jeff Spence was the best player on the pitch first half. Great going forward and got Messi in his pocket 😉

It's a slightly odd thing to say here, as despite all of our odd characters on this forum there's is a genuine sense that people here "know football"! I don't think many of us are that surprised by the manner of that result. I also think most of us would prefer a very (very) good - but tactically understandable - Spain side in the final than a wild attacking French team. It suits us more. That said, we (England) have to beat a pretty wild and unpredictable Argentina - with all that history - first. Do that and it's a genuine 50/50 I think. Depends which England turn up. If we get through. Looking forward to "all the drama" tomorrow (but actually hope it's incredibly dull and England go through with a tenth minute goal and no more shots of target).

Nope. You are not imagining anything in with a mirage. Your eyes receive refracted light. Looks like water. Your brain then misinterprets that sense data. You need to brush up on your Descartes. 😉