sydney_saint

Man, you and duckie just literally keep making things up. Saying Adkins came from the division below, saying Liverpool were in woeful form, or saying that people like me want him to fail to be right. Actually many people wanted Ralph to fail to be proven right, and that stems right back to that Liverpool game. Some are absolutely desperate for JWP to fail and were so quick to jump on him as soon as him form dipped. But I have already written on this thread that I will yell out "I was wrong" from the rooftops if Jones keeps up. I will be delighted to be wrong. Because unlike some, I would rather be happy and wrong, than unhappy and right.

Yeah mate January. How many time over the last 30 years have we been that high round that time of year? Especially coming off two seasons where we could easily go down, it was fantastic. It's a shame you couldn't enjoy it. And yeah we fell off a cliff as we were heavily overpunching and then went through one of the worst injury crisis i've ever seen. A few games later we were forced to play a defence of Valery, Vokins, Stephens and Bednarek! Like you can only do so much with that as a manager. Not sure what your point is about NJ having those same 3 players to work. Considering you seem to think there are green shoots of recovery whilst Ralph got more of a tune out of those players.

Man you do talk some utter shit. Like not even just shit opinions that at least can be subjective, but just stuff that's completely wrong. Their 12 league games before us was 6 wins, 6 draws and 0 losses. They had suffered a single league loss all season. Even accounting for cups they had won more games than 3 in their last 12 so you just made that up. They were literally top of the table when we beat them! And you consider that woeful? They weren't as good as the previous season, but they were still a top top side. Who cares what happened to them next and them losing games, it's not like Ralph had a crystal ball. And besides, more my point is who gives up on a manager at the moment we beat Liverpool AND are sitting 7th in the league?! Take a look at the side that beat Liverpool that day. It's a fucking miracle we didn't get sucked into a relegation battle that season, let alone be in and around the top half.

So as we beat the defending champions, taking us up to 7th in the league in January, with a first team containing the likes of Stephens, Diallo, Djenepo and Walcott, that the thing that went through your mind was 'he's lost me'? I genuinely just feel a little sad for you in all honesty.

So it's odd then that you are calling his tenure a failure, as we had all of that throughout most of it. During his time here he beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and City all at home in the league, so if you are going into all the games thinking we don't have a chance of winning, that's more on you. We also played for good chunks a dynamic style of football. Scroll through most clubs message boards and you will see everyone complaining about backwards/sideways passing. That's alot of modern football. Defences are set up much better. Yes the last 6 months have been shit, but to call his time here a failure is baffling by your own criteria. There are so many reasons we are at the bottom, and alot of it stems from the top. Signing a 20 year old keeper who has never played above League One to marshal our young defence. Having zero depth in a key position in cdm and the only person who can play there is 18. Not signing a striker when its been clear for a long time that Armstrong and Adams are never going to score enough goals. Thinking that Man City's academy is good enough to keep us afloat just because we hired a guy from there to do our recruitment. Underfunding our squad for many seasons whilst those around us spent. Thinking our manager will keep overperforming with a terrible squad whilst he becomes jaded and exhausted from the lack of support. That's not to say he was faultless, he made many mistakes. But by keeping us up every season comfortably, he was overachieving with that squad. I've mentioned on another thread, but I would happily have replaced Ralph if we had got in a clear calibre manager. The likes of Emery, Lopetegui, Bielsa, Bosz, Benitez. Happily have done so. But I don't think any of them were realistic, and maybe the Board thought that as well which is why they didn't even try to get one. Failing getting a manager of calibre, I believe our best bet of staying up was to give Ralph some time off during the World Cup to see whether he could find his mojo again. A rejuvenated and happy Ralph is a far superior manager to Jones and many out there. He's not the very best, but he is good enough to keep us up as proven by keeping us up in every other season.

Out of interest, what would success have looked like to you? Bear in mind our budget and squad so obviously european qualification was never the target (to aspire to of course, but would have been a ridiculous achievement rather than standard success). Our home form as mentioned last season was fine, and the number of goals we scored wasn't spectacular, but not terrible either. We still scored more goals at home then the likes of Brentford, Brighton, Leeds and Wolves.

If you are gonna have a dig, at least don't lie. Our home form after Ralph was fine. Last season we were 12th at home and the season before that we were 10th. The season before that was dreadful, but we also had amazing away form. It's a bit of a stretch to use home form from 3 seasons ago.

It's probably too early for some fans, but most will be looking back in a few years time and realise the decent job he did here. The squad of players he had at his disposable was below par, yet kept us safe for years. Unlike previous managers here, he didn't have a top quality centre back like Lovren, Alderweireld, or VVD. Instead he had to work with the likes of Bednarek, Stephens and Vestergaard. Some say 'oh but he had Ings to bail him out'. Well if you look at Ings career both before he joined and after he joined, his best seasons were comfortably here. Villa didn't seem too fussed letting him go this month and it's not like they are world beaters. Surely Ralph gets credit for getting the most out of him? I would like to have seen what he could have done with the mid season break. He was obviously jaded and worn out when he got the sack. But then is that unexpected? There was less of a break this season due to the world cup, and lots of managers have come back looking fucked. Take a look at most of the managers that have been managing in the EPL for longer. Rodgers, Klopp, Moyes, even Pep if he didn't have the freak up front. It's probably no wonder teams have been so inconsistent and so many have been sacked. They barely would have had a second off before they needed to start prepping for the new season in what is already a really intense environment. I know for Ralph it pre-dates the summer, but I do feel that had he had a bit more time to freshen up, such as the mid-season break, that he could have found his mojo again. Certainly it wouldn't have gone any worse in the league since.

Some real plodders in that list! When was the last time we had one of the better keepers in the league we were in? Probably none since we got promoted back to the EPL. Davis in League One definitely. Davis Championship- a bit more debateable. Davis in EPL-fuck no. Otherwise I feel we are going back to Niemi days?

I totally agree with this, and for all the clamour they as of yet they haven't reached the heights that we managed to reach. In addition to the europe and cup final you mention, we've been third in January and were sincere challengers for a top 4 place, and we have also finished 6th. Sure they might finish their this season in 6th, but we are only halfway through and I would guess Liverpool and Chelsea will get better. Our scouting was so good that we had genuinely world class players in VVD and Mane (and some would argue Tadic could be included with some of his European performances). We also did something which they haven't as much, which was to blend good scouting with our own young players, with Lallana, Shaw, JWP, Targett, chambers all having EPL careers, and also other young English talent like Jay and Clyne. Of all the challengers Leicester were obviously the most successful. But I don't know if anyone except for them has pushed things as much as we did. Even they have fallen away now, and someone else will replace Brighton, who will sell their best players for 70-80 million, not because the players are better than the Brighton ones, but that will reflect the prices at the time.

I don't think many have given up at all. The reason why so many are active and vocal is because we know we still have a chance. I definitely believe we still can stay up, but I also believe we are actively making decisions that are giving us less and less chance of survival and that is frustrating. If I thought we were down already I wouldn't really care who is manager, or whether we bring in a striker. But I do believe if we get the manager right, and bring in a decent enough striker that we can still do it. I can see three clubs we can finish above, but it won't be easy.

It is a good appointment for them, but I am still not sure it would have been a good one for us. His PL experience has always been with seasoned pros which should suit Everton more. I don't know how he would have got on at the youngest squad in the league with a very different squad of strengths and weaknesses compared to what he has worked with before. We need more of a Potter or a Poch I feel, a team that can turn the ball over in the oppositions half, rather than sitting back and hitting the channels.

Why do they have such an amazing record for their academy? As far as I can tell, Foden is the only really decent player to come out of it in the last decade or so. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will have other examples, but only him and maybe someone like Angelino come to mind. Sancho doesn't really count as he came from Watford and only stayed a couple of years. We are handing over tens of millions to them without them really having much of a track record. We got properly done over by Gunn, and most likely done over again with Baz (huge money for a goalkeeper who hasn't played above league one, not his fault we paid it though). I get going for Chelsea academy players, but what's so special about City?

It wasn't 50/50 sadly. The ball clearly hit his hand. The rules around an attacker handling the ball immediately before a goal have been pretty clear for a couple of seasons. I don't necessarily agree with it, but they are clear. Also shows why shots and shots on target can be pretty meaningless stats. Newcastle had more clear cut chances. A wild bicycle kick from Mara 18 yards out is not the same quality of chance as Joelington blazing over from 4 yards.

I don't really see how you think there was not much togetherness under Ralph, but it is now? In the 4 league games before Ralph was dismissed we fought bloody hard to get a point against runaway leaders Arsenal, and the lads put everything out there to beat Bournemouth. I'm not convinced we were any better last night than we were in the 4-1 loss that was Ralph's last game. We actually had much better chances in that game than last night but our usual striker issues was the problem.

Funnily enough, the only time opposition players have said we were horrible to play against was under Ralph. Premier League quality opposition are not gonna be scared seeing Lyanco running around like a lunatic and leaving masses of space behind him. They may get clobbered by the odd one, but they know they will get chances and will score goals. However they are gonna be scared of a well coached, highly energetic side that presses them and squeezes every inch and absolutely exhausts them. I would absolutely love to be wrong about Jones. I will stand here and yell from the rooftops I was wrong if he steers us to safety. But I am worried that my fears have become reality. That those that were hounding Ralph were so focused on getting him out of the club that they didn't think about what happens next. We weren't linked with managers of the calibre of Emery or Lopetegui. If we were, absolutely get rid of Ralph for a quality manager. But we weren't. In fact some fans were sincerely suggesting Big Sam, a guy who has managed one club in 5 years and got relegated with them!

Nah mate, you don't get it. Stats are useless, including things like shots, chances created, goals, points, and number of players you have left on the pitch. The only thing that matters is you got in their face and left some bruises. That's the real winners!

It's a decent point. I'm not sure though if we could play a basics horrid football even if we wanted to. We could probably get a pretty muscly backline out of Salisu, ABK and Lyanco. But I feel from our full backs to the mids to the forwards that we don't have the right sort of players, even if we did sign a big bastard to lead the front line. I feel we have the players to play a tight pressing style more like Brighton, or just how we used to a couple of seasons back, then to play that ugly but effective football associated with teams like Dyche or Moyes in the past. I also don't know how our players would feel changing to that kind of system. Bear in mind they are probably not too bothered about the long term future of us, they are here (theoretically) to play in a system that allows them to flourish and then move on to a bigger club. The likes of Edozie, Lavia, ABK, Alcarez, Mara and Larios were probably told that they would play in a fluid system. Whilst I wish that didn't matter, in todays age where player egos rule, it's probably not good to alienate half your team, and their agents who we will need for future signings. I find it hard to know where to go next. I don't think a classic 'no nonsense' manager will work with this group of players. I don't believe Jones has the skillset to develop a fluid system that can deliver results in the prem. And I am also unsure (but can't be certain) whether there is a skilled manager out there who is capable of developing the right system who is also available/would want to get involved in this clusterfuck of a club.

Why do you think we would have got less, when we picked up 4 from the previous 4 games, one of which included Arsenal. Getting over 3 points from our easiest run of the season seems pretty realistic.

We picked up 4 points in our last 4 games under Ralph. We weren't outplayed by Bournemouth. We didn't create much, but neither did they and we held them pretty comfortable. They barely had a chance. We also got a vital point against runaway leaders Arsenal, whilst the only points we have got here are against the only team in a bigger freefall than we are.

I would argue it wasn't a mean feat. It was actually odds on. Have a glance at the manager suggestion list before we get sacked. The most common names that were suggested were two managers that effectively had been relegated in their last job. This was the reality that most frothing at the mouth to get rid of Ralph would not accept. It's easy to call for a manager to go and want someone better. The harder bit is to find someone. Look how long it took Wolves, with much more money and contact then us, to find someone. I absolutely agree that some managers would have got more out of this team then Ralph. But most of the names we were linked with were clear downgrades. And low and behold, we got one. So it wasn't the massive fuck up that people think. We were odds on to get a downgrade. We just managed to go especially shit and go for a big downgrade.

Maybe we were destined to go down, but that wasn't my point. You don't think Ralph would have got more points out of Brighton (h) Fulham (a) Forest (h) Everton (a) Villa (h) Which generated us a whopping 3 points. When Ralphs last 5 games gave us 5 points was. was Newcastle (h) Palace (a) Arsenal (h) Bournemouth (a) West Ham (h) Neither are amazing. But my point was if you think we can stay up with jones, but would have gone down with Ralph, you are nuts

I want to say this loud enough so the naughty kids at the back of the class can hear. Luck or not. If Ralph was still here, we would have more points today then we do now. Not saying we would definitely stay up. But if you believe we can still stay up with Jones in charge, but don't believe we would have stayed up with Ralph, then you are nuts. That's all.

Get him out of my club. He doesn't beat his chest and bellow at his team mates whilst running around with a bloody bandage around his head. He can get fucked

Our captain