sydney_saint

Bit of a rubbish argument. Outside the elite nations, most European countries have a handful of first team players that would struggle to play at EPL level. Bedareks CB partner in their last match plays in the Serie B. Just because you are good enough for Poland doesn't instantly mean you are good enough for the level we want to be playing at.

Probably worth mentioning that things tend to be a bit more dramatic on the internet and won't be representative of the entire fan base. I reckon it's closer to 50/50 than 60/40. So miles away from Branfoot.

No one is saying that a team can't overachieve on a lower budget (though there are realistic limits to how high you can go). It's about where you set your expectations. How you can set an expectation of a top 10 finish on our budget I just totally fail to understand. Everyone agrees Brighton are having a very good season. Which brings me to the point that you are setting the expectation of our club to greatly overachieve. Brighton have also spent loads more than us. Since their promotion their spend is 182m compared to our 25m. All of that, and they still are unlikely to beat ralphs record point tally in the division. Ralph isn't perfect, I ain't saying that. But for me it's a huge risk getting rid of him given he has kept us up on relative scraps compared to others. A small potential increase in points ain't worth risking relegation in my eyes. Just take a look at the new manager thread. So uninspiring.

I agree if isn't foolproof, and there are many other things to consider like salaries as well. But I do think it is a good bell-weather. Take West Ham and Wolves who are doing the best of the rest this season. They are also near the top of the big spenders outside top 6 over the last few years. A couple of exceptions like Everton, who everyone recognises as having an abysmal season, and Chelsea as they have an unusual model with their academy. I also think net spend is useful as it tells you who is selling players to balance the books. Take Brighton, who most don't think as big spenders. Over the last 5 years, they have spent 182m compared to our 25m. They've been gradually building this squad over a number of seasons, and only really lost White and Burns during that time. Let's see what happens when they have to sell the likes of Lamptey and Bissouma. On things like daft team selections and illogical solutions. I agree he has made some weird decisions, and one of my big frustrations is when he tinkers when we have a winning formula. But also. Every fan in the EPL has these same criticisms of their manager! Even Pep gets challenged by City fans for occasional daft team selections or illogical subs.

What about Man City, do they have worse players than us? We have picked up 11 points from top 6 clubs. That's a pretty damn good performance, especially when you consider the dominance of the top 2 over the league. So if you want to hang the shit results over his head, you have to hold the excellent ones as well. To your other point on 48. Yeah I bloody want more points. But whether we 'should' have them is different. We haven't hit that number very often in our history, and when we do, they are widely considered excellent seasons. It's getting even harder with everyone outspending us. You are setting the bar at 'very good season'. As said, they would be top 10. Why on earth do we have a right to be top 10 given the size of clubs and resources? Top 10 is achieveable, but requires a great season

Oh don't be silly. We aren't in significant danger of going down. We have the slightest, most remote chance of going down. Burnley, Everton and Leeds are in significant danger. You have to go back nearly 20 years for 40 points not to be enough.

A team that finishes on 48 points will likely be top half. How is that a par achievement when our spend is near the bottom of the table? Whilst achievable, you are setting expectation at a huge overachievement. Ridiculous to set par at overachievement, and then sack the manager if he doesn't hit it. In fact, that's a recipe for relegation down the line. Yeah the defeats to Burnley and Watford are shit, but we have also taken points off United, City twice, Spurs, Arsenal. Some of his tactics have been bizarre at times. Other times they have been fantastic.

You could also say that he was utilising our resources ridiculously well to get us on that run given how poor alot of our squad is. We took points off sides with way more spending power than us. That's why I am judging him across the season, rather than 13 games. Whether you think it's poor management or not, he has got us 40 points and steered clear of relegation, which would have been the objective at the start of the season. What for you would have been an acceptable position and points tally?

I think any discussion of Ralph needs to consider the resources he has had available. I've just grabbed the numbers from Transfermarkt to see his net spend since his first summer transfer window. Club 21/22 20/21 19/20 Total Brentford FC -32.13 49.23 5.64 22.74 Watford FC -27.59 60.75 -20.79 12.37 Norwich City -23.09 27.64 -5.95 -1.4 Burnley FC -4.86 1.08 -9.27 -13.05 Southampton FC 15.54 -9.9 -30.78 -25.14 Crystal Palace -77.05 -2.16 43 -36.21 Brighton & Hove Albion 4.32 -7.11 -53.91 -56.7 Chelsea FC 1.76 -170.82 101.04 -68.02 Leicester City -57.24 -5.06 -14.22 -76.52 Liverpool FC -51.75 -58.91 30.69 -79.97 Everton FC 5.85 -62.05 -29.88 -86.08 Wolverhampton Wanderers -5.22 -7.74 -83.34 -96.3 Leeds United -53.01 -96.12 27.36 -121.77 West Ham United -63.24 -8.36 -57.89 -129.49 Newcastle United -118.35 -34.85 -33.53 -186.73 Manchester City -36.63 -86.09 -79.67 -202.39 Tottenham Hotspur -55.6 -87.48 -75.6 -218.68 Aston Villa -2.54 -88.72 -140.85 -232.11 Arsenal FC -122.42 -60.17 -96.44 -279.03 Manchester United -98.37 -57.87 -138.26 -294.5 We are where we are for a reason. Whilst money isn't everything, it's pretty hard to go substantially up the table without it. Brentford are a bit of an anomaly, but need to see where they are this time next year. Also consider if you added in teams that have been relegated like Fulham who have probably spent way more than us. So for me Ralph is hitting his objectives, which is to avoid relegation and get us on some cup runs. Expecting top half is nice, but need to accept that it would be a big overachievement to get it given our cash. Let's say we got a new manager, and he was a success. That would gain us realistically 10 extra points a season. So roughly where Wolves are, but not European places. If we got a new manager, and he failed. That could lose us 10 extra points a season. Which could easily see us relegated. We have seen with Hughes and Pellegrino that there are managers far worse than Ralph out there so this scenario is not inlikely. Ralph has never had us in serious threat of relegation. Which is where we would be if this backfired. Is a few potential places up the ladder worth the risk? Not for me UNLESS we suddenly have bigger cash resources.

The gap between our best players and the rest is huge. I think the West Ham game masked just how big a drop off it is. The only players we have which are clear top 12 sort of players are KWP, JWP, Salisu, Romeu with maybes around S Armstrong, Broja (though he will get there), Perraud, Forster and Liv. The rest are all bottom EPL/Championship level. Then we had three key players lose form all at the same time, and nobody stepped up. Salisu- was a rock for us. Form fell off a cliff. Whether this was head turned or young player out of form I am not sure. Either way, the other cbs, especially Bednarek, have not stepped up to cover his drop off. Bednarek has been utterly woeful. Romeu- Love the guy. Was swaggering around with his dick out during our good run. Was playing as one of the dms in the league. Now he is lumbering around with his gut out and we don't have anyone who can play his role. That's a major squad failing, as Diallo is a very different player. Broja- Was on a hot streak that went cold. Understandable for a young player. None of the other strikers have stepped up with goals. Armstrong has barely had a look in, Che has missed so many chances by trying to blast the ball through the keepers, Long shouldn't be anywhere near the pitch. To compound this, our number 10s are generally not up to scratch. Stuart is the only one and his form has turned as well. Our squad is in such a poor way that it only takes 3 or so players form to turn if they are one of our few very good players, and that puts us on a shit run. Likewise, if all our key players are in good form, we can give anyone a game as they can cover the shortcomings on the rest of the pitch.

The names on here is exactly why I am reluctant to join Ralph out camp. Realistically, our net spend over his tenure has us down at Watford, Burnley and Norwich levels. Clubs that have spent far more than us are either below us or around us in the table and only a few points better off. Objectively, we have achieved what we needed to which was to stay up and have a bit of a go at the cup. Alot of the people who said they couldn't care less whether we finished 9th or 16th suddenly really care... After the Pellegrino and Hughes period, it's pretty obvious that a change of manager could see us plummet. It could also see us play better, which is why this is tricky. For me though, unless there is a clear stand out candidate, it would be stupid to get rid of him. We have barely spent any cash, yet have never been in serious danger of going down. Until we spend more, our objective each season is to stay up and until that is under serious jeopardy I think he should probably stay (unless like I said there is a serious attainable name). IF I were gonna throw a name into the mix, it would be Ange Postecoglou. Plays the way we want to play, very attacking. Has totally rebuilt Celtic in a single season and done it playing scintillating football.

Imagine a 28 year old Nathan Redmond has spent most of his career in the Premier League. Makes you want to cry.

This feels extremely weird to type. But we might win(?) this. Brighton are doing a real Saints here, I recognise it from a mile.

Ha, if ever a move encapsulated Long. Shit touch, shit decision making, and offside anyway

Man, stop being so hysterical. A 'real resentment'. Get a grip. There have been some Saints teams in the past which have been a disgrace. Like what we became under Pellegrino and Hughes. This team isn't the best, but nor should it be with the amount of money we have spent. We go on some really good runs, we go on some really diabolical runs. We are in a diabolical run. But ultimately we've achieved what we needed to this season. We stayed up comfortably, we went on a decent cup run, and got the bonus of new owners which hopefully will mean more funding. Do you have a real resentment for your wife for not making Michelin quality dinners as well?

Adams has mastered nailing the ball straight at the keeper. He would have three times the amount of goals if he could move it just a yard or two wider!

What has happened to Romeu? A few months ago he was playing like one of the best in the league. Now he can barely string a pass together and even a shit midfield like Burnley are ambling past him. He's been really poor for about a month now.

Who is saying he can't have an opinion? But people have a right to feel angry and disgusted by genocide denial as an 'opinion'

Has he even hit the wall in the last 3 years? Even the few he misses seem to only miss by a very small margin

Didn't see that. All I saw was a shot of white cream ejaculated from Mike Dean

Got two non scoring forwards, and unsurprisingly got two forwards who don't look like scoring. Can't fault workrate, but when the best partnership this season is sitting on the bench, got to ask questions

gahffjjdfjidfnidfniudj so close

My understanding at Rangers is that recruitment has seriously deteriorated since he joined. Most of their good players, like Morelas and Aribo, were already at the club when he joined. Rangers spent big to stop Celtic getting their 10, who imploded anyway with a dogshit manager Lennon. Rangers haven't really been selling their players which means that the bulk of the team has been pretty stable. Last January case in point on his recruitment strategy. Celtic were on their tails and had strengthened. Wilson spent 2m to bring in Ramsay on loan, who has barely played. And they got Amad the United youngster on loan who has been shit and unfair to expect a youngster to come in for a title run in anyway. Rangers have some pretty dicey finances, so he's probably quite restricted with what he can do. But even within his limited budget seems to be under achieving.

I wonder if some of the first team players have lost a little bit of motivation because of the FA Cup. I think all the fan base agree that the cup matches are our most important now. The players arent stupid and they will also know that. It must be pretty shitty to put in the yards all season and then be left out the most important games. Maybe some of them already know it's gonna be a reserve team against City. I'm not excusing them for losing motivation as they are extremely well paid and should be putting in 100% each game. But I can kinda get why you would feel less motivated.

I kinda disagree about the fans needing a name. Playing the right sort of ball and connecting with the fan base can change that very quickly. Look at the backlash against poch, yet he quickly won over people by having a clear exciting identity. Most of the time when we have a manager change, it's cos the previous manager was getting poor results. This wasn't the case when puel walked in. We had a model that was generating fantastic results in the league. Yes we lost a few vital players, but we still had some extremely talented players like Tadic, who I feel never regained his mojo after puel stifled us. Puel decided to rip up how we played. He could have brought in some players, maybe evolve us a bit, but ultimately stick to a successful blueprint. Sure there would be a drop off, Mane was irreplaceable, but I don't know if I can be convinced we couldn't have found another Pelle out there. Instead he brought this utterly turgid style of football that lead to us getting knocked out of europa embarrassingly, lack of entertainment and lack of goals. Still. He could have turned it around. There was considerable goodwill after the league Cup Final. We were never going down, so he could have lifted the hand break a little bit and played some better stuff. Yet we went backwards in terms of entertainment. Just have a look at our last several home games. His stubbornness was enormous, and it was only ever gonna go one way. Let's not forget he didn't just lose the fans, he lost the players as well and sucked the joy out of the club. It wasn't a shocking season of course, but for me I ain't got any sympathy as a lot of the problems came from his own ego and stubbornness. Something Leicester fans say as well