sydney_saint

I think for me, it's disappointing only in the context we have limited money to spend. If Torino were in the EPL, they would probably have got relegated, so the fact he's not considered to be one of their better players is a bit worrying. Our defence was so weak last season, and arguably our starting xi is worse this season than last, albeit we have more squad depth now. I get we probably don't have the cash to bring in a centre back that is miles better than what we have got. But bringing in a similar level one I think is the wrong move. We could have used this money to sign a keeper. 7m can definitely get you a keeper that is better than what we have got, and that will save us/gain us points over the season. Possibly would have saved us a couple already. If we sign a first choice keeper by end of window, then this is a decent signing. But if we are going in with those two muppets till January, then I think this is a very high risk for a player that comes with a mediocre reputation.

Quite a big half here for Ralph. Need to show progress in defending a lead at half time. It's United, so if they win by a couple of pieces of magic, or are forced to work hard for it then fine. Some things are out of his control. But if we come out shit again and go down limply, then questions need to be asked about whether we can improve.

Woohooohooo! Great goal! And fuck you Bruno you fucking whingey cunt.

Bruno is the most unbookable player in the league. Every single game he does several of these challenges.

This is a very unsurprisingly. We sold two of our best players. We have replaced them with one promising championship player, and a bunch of players miles off from the Chelsea side. Let's be frank. We are a premier League side and we need players that would be getting proper minutes for Chelsea (like bertrand) not players that are miles off from their first team. No saying those players are specifically the issue. But we clearly have downgraded our side in the short term when we have been awful since Christmas. We need some players for the here and now. Not two years from here

Not only clear evidence today. But clear evidence to everyone that it would be needed without vestegaard (who wasn't great himself). Extremely frustrating as we've had months to work on this, yet you would think all of our players were at the euros and the Olympics. Under prepared, unfit, and poor. I imagine we will bring in a defensive version of Carrillo and that will be that for us

Haven't had a chance to watch for once. And am so thankful for it. Is it little wonder. Our defence was so god damn weak last season, and we have started this season with a weaker defence than last. That's just a red card offence for every single person responsible. I know someone is gonna scream 'TrAnfeR wInDow IsNt FiniShed! '. But we are gonna be throwing in any new defenders with no preseason. Shambles.

I'll take responsibility for this all going wrong. Turkish gave me a very fair and very reasonably worded response that spoke from his own experience via sister and cousin. I respect that. I hadn't responded yet simply as work has been super busy and stressful last couple of days and I wanted to make sure I gave it the time it deserved. It's a real shame that things seem to have detoriated, as if i had responded in time the reasonable debate could have continued. And I think it is one of those things that is worth debating as things have undoubtedly got so much better for LGBT over the decades. But there is still some homophobia around. I'm in a bit if a rush, and seems like this thread may end up getting locked anyway. So how about this. Given we are so shit up at Goodison- we win today the shirt can continue until our first loss of the season. Lose today and we don't see it again. Win the league and it becomes our new home kit next season and Turkish has to do a lap of the stadium whist wearing it

My favourite Clyne goal was the one against Liverpool. Just for absolute lack of respect he gave the keeper. A proper belter of a finish at the near post.

I would like to think our finish line isn't just surviving relegation! Bit sad that we have had more consquetive seasons of EPL money than most of the league, yet we are still aiming to keep our noses just above the relegation line.

Apart from a few months early on last season (until he got injured but was excellent) the reality is that Vestegaard has been either a bit above average, average, or poor for most of his time here. The sadder reality is that was enough to be comfortably our best centre back. One of our weakest areas of the pitch has just managed to get even weaker. It's very frustrating that we knew Vest was off this Summer, yet spent the end of the season wasting our time with Salisu at left back. He should have been in his preferred position given he hadn't played much all season, and is likely gonna be a really key player for us this season. Really dumb management. In the same way it was dumb to keep playing Redmond instead of giving Djenepo a run of games to see if he is good enough with a bit of rhythm. It means we go into this season with avoidable question marks over some players Unless the club has something decent up its sleeve, there is a very real risk we go into the season in a worse position than last season. Bednarek I don't think is quite good enough to be a guaranteed starter at this level, and Stephens is Stephens. ALOT of pressure on whoever the new signing is, and Salisu, to step up. That's asking a fair bit for two players. Not to mention trying to gel with a new left back as well.

Firstly I genuinely appreciate the tone and the language you have used here. I do think you are getting a little caught up on the 1/10 and not some of the other figures. The 7/10 number is still significant, as it impacts people's behaviour. As I mentioned before, if someone has witnessed a homphobic incident to another person, they are less likely to return to put themselves in that situation again. Some won't give a shit, and some will. And the numbers indicate that quite a large number feel uncomfortable about attending because of the abuse they have witnessed. If i think about my sister, if someone asked her 'have you been directly impacted' the answer would be no. But she will say she has seen it happen, and no longer attends matches so not to put herself in that situation. I suspect the actual number personally impacted would be somewhere between the 1/10 and 7/10 if some people weren't moderating their behaviour. Sure, it's not going to be every game, but across a season, or multiple seasons, the chances increase that it will. I get what you mean that the world isn't sunshine and happy, and the ideas around offended. And I think it is important to stress that a handful of hysterical people on twitter are not a representation. I did ask before, and I genuinely ask it in sincerity, about whether you have personally been abused or experienced similar. And maybe you have. I think it is very easy to say stick and stones may break my bones, but unless you have experienced similar, it is harder to make that judgement. I recognise that you have said blatant homophobia is not okay, but it seems that you have decided to draw a line, and those that are in anyway over one side of it are hysterical, attention-seeking woke, and your side is the correct side. One example that might blur the line is the word 'faggot', which does get used at the footy still. For a number of LGBT, probably younger generation, that word might mean nothing and so hearing someone screaming it makes no difference. For another it can make them feel really uncomfortable as it is a word with a very loaded history. In the same way a black person would feel uncomfortable someone screaming 'nigger'. In these cases is it stick and stones may break my bones? Or should we try and improve so people can feel comfortable whilst watching their team? We can celebrate the progress we have made on these issues whilst still highlighting there is still a bit more to be done. I just don't see what there is for people to get irate about. If it's not for you, that's fine, pay it no attention. Fwiw the shirt and rainbow laces aren't really for me, but I don't see the harm, and don't understand why people do get pissed off by something that just doesn't impact them. If it works for just one fan, then it is worth it in my eyes

I have shown several times in this thread from high level data to personal stories that this is not the case for all LGBT fans. So please stop this roundabout debate. You said yourself that you treat everyone the same, and you are insinuating that you believe that everyone should be able to attend a game free of harassment. So if the latter is not happening for all LGBT fans, then surely something needs to be done for your argument to make sense?

I think you are getting caught up on semantics of language there over a single word rather than the rest of the message. I was talking more generally about appreciating that people are different, and that they should be allowed to express that however they like.

Against who out of interest?

We are all the same in terms of our basic human rights. Our rights to education, access to health care, job opportunities, the right to express ourselves etc. We are all different in terms of how we express that. Our differences vary on areas such as gender, sexuality, race, beliefs, etc. and we should celebrate those differences providing someone's identity does not harm others. The issues is that there are a number of very clear examples where people are not allowing those to express themselves in a free manner. And that is why these sort of things are getting brought up.

Depends on what you mean by people. If you are talking about the Corporates like Sky and BT. Then no shit. They don't care about any of this. They are only getting involved in issues to try and make money from it. And absolutely give no shits about Qatar's awful record providing the money is right. In terms of ordinary people, there are lots of people who do oppose it. I get what we are missing is an umbrella organisation that can centralise all the opposition, but there have certainly been campaigns from the likes of Oxfam, C4, Guardian etc to boycott. Hopefully as the season progresses we can build something meaningful, but we will need some footballers to break ranks.

I don't quite understand your point? There has been LGBT groups that oppose the Qatar World cup. There have been human rights groups that do as well. That tournament should never have been awarded to them, and certainly shouldn't be going ahead.

My memory is not great. I do know most of the incidents take place outside the stadium, particularly post match. A couple that come to mind. I have no idea whether it was walking to or from the stadium. But a group of lads surrounded them and chanted some pretty horrible stuff at them. That was my Manchester friends who were holding hands as they walked either to or from the stadium. I know of another where someone tried to pour his pint over him (he knocked it out of his hands) and called him a fag in the pub. Again it was one of the Machester guys. I don't know of Saints incidents, but that's actually because I know very few Saints fans as I grew up in Sydney I can ask for more though. It's not something we talk about much in all honesty. When we talk football, we want to talk about football, not bring up all the shit. But there absolutely have been incidents.

I absolutely have no intention of watching that disgrace of a World Cup thank you very much.

It's not particularly difficult to work out with some men. If I think of my friends, particularly the couple I know who are United fans, the gaydar almost explodes.

No because they felt unsafe. Let's say you are a gay man going to the football. And let's say you hear another gay man getting abused or harassed based on his sexuality. Maybe that is the last time you go the stadium. Maybe you go again, nothing happens. But a few weeks down the line, it happens again. You think 'Why would I want to keep going, cos what if that happens to me?' Why should someone be made to feel uncomfortable or even unsafe? And why is it so hard to empathise with that sort of situation? You say no one would ever leave the house, but in all seriousness when was the last time you were made to feel like that?

Yes, because many of them don't return back to the stadiums. That's the point

7/10 have heard or witnessed homophobia. If you hear or witness, are you likely to hand around to it actually happens to you?

Why are you more upset about that, than the people doing the abusing?