The Kraken

I can't believe you've argued with me all these years over a difference of 2,500 in proposed capacity. I feel cheated.

So 42,500 then??!!

They're irrelevant. Stoneham has been and gone. 25K would have been too small, which means that the estimates for that size of stadium requried were wrong at the time. I don't see how its valid. But like I say that's irrelevant now.

Yes. A long term desire, an ambition. It may well be scaled down from that. He also said a 5 year plan, which changed. He also said many other things, which have changed, some for the good some for the bad. You simply can't take a throwaway comment such as that as plain fact that we are 100% definitely going to do it. But you didn't answer the question; what are you suggesting the club should do? I'll lead off with my suggestion if its easier. I suggest the club monitor attendances for at least 2-3 years. If there is overwhelming evidence that a considerably bigger stadium can be filled (using the current financial model) and its financially viable to do so, we should do it. if there isn't that evidence, we should keep monitoring the situation and take a decision on whether to do it after each subsequent season. Given that Cortese once said something about a desire to be housed in a 50k stadium; are you saying that we should now build one? That's what it seems like. Happy to hear a clarification.

MLG; just so we can cut through a lot of this. As opposed to waiting for 2, 3 seasons before deciding what capacity stadium we should/should not increase to. What are you suggesting the club should do? Genuinely. I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make, or what you're suggesting the club should do (other than "wait and see", which is what I and others are suggesting).

What on earth? I'm not trying to imply that at all. I've not even mentioned the Dell. I think you must be very confused.

Exactly. Is it really that difficult a suggestion for others to grasp? The sheer effort that must have gone into Marco's keyboard thumping rant just to entirely miss the point is quite stunning. I've even said myself in this thread how I envisage that in future I think we might need a 40K stadium!! Really is quite unbelievable.

I'm not going to respond to the rest as this bit is so ridiculous. As I said to MLG; I was the one who started threads saying that we had sold out against Man United and Spurs two weeks in advance. So how does that fit in with an anti-Saints agenda? Again, where have I said our attendances are bad? Where have I said that in this thread; please point it out. i hope you enjoyed typing all those stats out; because you've entirely missed the point!

No. Not obviously at all. I would expect a Saints "local derby" like this in the PL to sell out both in the home and away ends. I'm surprised it hasn't; and I'm especially surprised Reading fans have been so ambivolent about it. I think, if I'm honest, its you that fails to understand. We KNOW that Saints will become more popular if we are a successful side. We KNOW that investment is necessary for that (and that we spent £30M odd in the summer suggests its underway). What anyone has ever said in response to you is that we should wait and see; see where we are, see where we can realistically get to. Your line of thinking seems to be "Cortese has previously mentioned a 50K stadium so that's the only option for growth". It clearly isn't. Studies on attendances may well lead him ot revise that downwards; to 45k, 40k, 36K, hell he may not think its worth it at all. He may not even be here! So, you see, I think everyone knows that our gates could rise in future with a consistently better side; I'm fairly sure I haven't seen anyone disagree with the assessment. What is completely unknown is just how high they could rise; that's what these next seasons are about, checking out what the actual demand is compared to an original speculative figure.

Does this thread make any sense? Yes it does. Obviously it may be even more valid to analyse after the game, but its also well worthy of discussion before it. In fact I think Turkish makes a fairly valid point; a Premier League game between two sides looks likely to be less popular than a Championship game between the same two sides was just a few months ago. It suggests at the very least that the glamour of the Premier League alone is not a huge influence on bringing in extra crowds, and gives another bit of evidential information into a supposition we can all make on future attendances. Even the news that Reading aren't close to their full allocation is news as far as I'm concerned. This should also be news to those who suggested that we could fill an increased capacity with extra away fans; Newcastle and now Reading have really surprised me in not taking up the full number they're entitled to and opting for a reduced allocation. You in fact have previously used Reading as an example to us in potentially extending their own ground to 38K; yet here they are and suddenly they can't even fill their away end for a trip to one of their closest rivals (which while being no direct comparison of anything, is again more evidential information to add to the growing pile). I don't know why people get snooty about these threads. I started the ones that highlighted the Man Utd and Tottenham games had actually sold out nearly 2 weeks in advance. again, more information for us and that can hardly be called baiting, can it?

I don't think you seem to understand even what my point is (its not an argument, silly), MLG. Can you perhaps explain it for me. I gave it a go myself in posts #52 and #53, but if you could clarify it for me I'd be obliged.

:lol: It's not warfare Wes, its a sporting chat forum. Dear me, you seem to take internet arguing almost as seriously as tajjuk does.

You say "concerned"; I'm not worried in the slightest about them. I have an interest in them, if that's what you're asking. I've consistently said many times that I can see the potential for, down the line, an increase in capacity of St. Mary's to 40K if we had a successful team and sustained growth in this division. I've also said we shouldn't look to do that right now, but should certainly look to monitor exactly where we are and what our current and future attendance levels are and could be. This is part of that; I'd like to grow as a club, at the moment I can't see a justification for it (yet) but I think there might be. For some reason some people seem to equate that with being negative, having a Dell-sized mentality, and suggesting that we'll never outgrow St. Mary's. Which a thoroughly bizarre yet humourous accusation.

Don't think the ST figure ever got announced. Its rumoured to be around 20K I think. There's plenty of reasons why attendances aren't selling out every week. Undersold corporate areas is a significant and ever-present one. Having every game available live on a stream, and many games televised, also has an effect. Stupid kick off times don't help (although, saying that, our highest attendance this season of 31,944 came against Spurs at 3pm on a Sunday). Lots of people have been turned off by the Premier League, too; its not a close competition that we can win and having that lack of competitiveness is a turn off for some. Its a fact that, given our size, anything close to our capacity of 32,689 is a decent showing. In reality we've only really got close to sellouts on a regular basis for one season at St. Marys, and that after an 8th placed finish and FA Cup final and after shifting a record 23,000 season tickets. And despite all the euphoria surrounding this season, we've yet to break through the 32,000 barrier for a crowd, which should indiciate just how difficult it would be to fill the stadium with thousands of extra paying customers.

Where have I said its a sh*t attendance and we should be worried? Or are you just trolling and making that up?

What; such as the 30,501 against Swansea that didn't sell out? The 31,410 against Newcastle which didn't (quite) sell out? Or the 29,325 against Norwich which didn't sell out? Which one of those games would you have liked a thread about? Sorry to repeat those figures but my anti-Saints agenda won't feed itself.

Will I balls!

B*llocks, we've spent £20 going with National sodding Express.

Doesn't offend me pal, you carry on.

Why? Only a fraction of extra seats in Block 43 have gone on sale.

He really is all over the place in this thread.

Probably, yes. I guess it stems from being told we were wrong so very often about it, when we were nothing of the sort. Tales of previously selling out weeks in advance for all our games (and somehow still selling thousands of tickets on the day) are now being proved as complete fabrication, and there (thankfully) seems to be a bit more reality surrounding our level of fanbase and attendance expectations.

It was; and even in the season we finished 20th in the Premier League.

The clue is in the article. The club were given an initial allocation of 1753 tickets - but after high demand have taken on an extra 700 seats, taking the allocation up to 2,453. So they still have a reduced allocation (they can and previously have had up to 3,200) and it hasn't sold out yet (hence tickets still being on sale).

It wasn't needed. We also had thousands nay tens of thousands of fans who knew games had sold out and therefore didn't bother trying for tickets (except the thousands who bought on the day for all those games that were sold out weeks in advance).