The Kraken

With the era of player relegation clauses and hugely enhanced parachute payments I'm not sure I buy this argument. Before anyone jumps down my throat about it: of course I'm not advocating doing a Pompey. But I don't see too much wrong in reinforcing the team with 1 or 2 players with proven experience, and it will likely cost a little more than a Championship youngster (although its fair to say that JRod will be on a pretty penny anyway after signing for £7M). In any case, if Cortese is driving our transfer activity based around potential relegation it flies in the face of every single thing he's said about our ambitions.

Do we? When we already have one? Why would we rule out getting a more defensive-minded left back, out of interest? Particularly when we know that Lallana's attacking instincts often leave us exposed at left back and we may need to shore that up against better sides.

Well done, you're in the running for the "didn't read the whole thread properly" award.

I'm still not sure you're not getting my point. I don't dislike anything about our transfers so far, I think they've been good. Clyne I think will be a real star given time, JRod plenty of potential, Gazzaniga one for the future (if not this season) and an experienced head of Davis in there too. All good to date and wouldn't question that. There was just a lazy comparison being made that seemed to suggest it was either to sign an established PL star "like Joey Barton, Anton Ferdinand and SWP" or just young players from the lower leagues. I'm simply seeking to highlight the shades of grey in between, of which there are very many.

Indeed. And it will also act as a bit of a deterrent to the likes of Scott Dann, David Dunn, Junior Hoilett (albeit out of contract) to try to engineer a massively cut price deal away.

Neither are those advocating only going for younger players from the lower leagues, are they? This is a generic point about the types of player we should be going for (a mix of both, of course). I reeled off that list, off the top of my head alone, to show that there's plenty of options available that don't cost a fortune. If I had the inclination I could probably give you a realistic list of 20 or 30 players we could go for, but it would be ultimately pointless. The point is there are lots of these players out there and we don't have to console ourselves to "only" signing young players from the Championship.

I read a couple of quotes from Blackburn fans regarding the Scott Dann transfer, both seemed fairly sure that Venky's don't need to sell players to sustain the club. Could all be talk of course, but the fact there's not yet been any massive clamour for their players to leave is somewhat telling.

I think you miss my point. I'm not saying we should sign those players. Just dispelling the myth suggested by others that you can't buy proven PL players without breaking the bank. You can.

Also previously mentioned by Bailey in the Buttner thread.

You've just identified 3 players to create your argument and discounted many, many others who would be suitable to go for. Us signing Steven Davis is proof that it can happen. The "next level for us is hitting 11th - 17th in the PL, anything above that this season is wildly optimistic. As previously stated Reading have signed 3 proven PL players without breaking the bank. Matt Jarvis would be a great signing. West Ham have got Jaaskelainen on a free. Fulham have got Rodallega on a free (high wages I'm sure but negated by the lack of transfer fee). West Brom got Ben Foster for £4M, IMO a bargain for a keeper of his quality. Plenty of sides in the bottom half of the table have been in for proven PL players, so lets not pretend it can't happen without bankrupting the club, it clearly can.

Premier League rules state you must give 10% of stadium capacity or a minimum of 3,000 seats to the away side, whichever is smaller. So 3,000 is the default minimum. We allow up to 3,200 due to the configuration of St. Mary's.

Oh yeah, up front was superb. No surprise we let in 3 goals against 10 men with that rearguard and midfield though! Richard Dryden and Ulrich van Gobbel FFS!

Blimey, that's pretty harsh, June. Have a look at the team that thumpred Man United 6-3, it made me laugh how mad it was: Dave Beasant, Richard Dryden, Claus Lundekvam, Ulrich van Gobbel, Simon Charlton (Graham Potter 70), Jason Dodd, Alan Neilson (Jim Magilton 75) Matthew Oakley, Eyal Berkovic, Matt Le Tissier (Gordon Watson), Egil Østenstad.

Man City played 19 homes games last season; they won 18 and drew 1. They scored 55 goals and conceded just 12, which is close to an average of a 3-1 victory every game. Keeping the scoreline respectable is going to be an almighty challenge in itself, if we play our typical open game we could get absolutely mullered.

Well I can't say I agree with all of that. As I said it was just a technique used by some, not everyone. But its quite prevalent, nonetheless. Some threads I suppose can become a bit predictable; but its not as if they get in the way of anything, there's no proper football on right now! The message board would go into hibernation if we only talked about the games, so this is just one way in which it stays alive. It will become more normal in the next few weeks as we approach kick off. I'm on who actually takes interest in the threads about the ground expansion, training ground etc. I've posted fairly extensively on them, and I agree there's a certain amount of mickey taking and such like but in general terms I think that's been worthwhile in actually finding out exactly where we are. There are a lot of great things being donw by the club, and a lot of corporate spin that associates itself with that. And its all very well saying "we want Champions League football", another to say how its going to be done. I don't see any criticism, just trying to break down exactly what we're doing, how it compares to other clubs around us, and how it will allow us to achieve the lofty ambitions stated by the club. There do seem to be some polar opposite views, and a fair bit of middle ground. I just find it strange when some questioning of what we're doing in relation to others suddenly turns into the notion of criticising the club; its weird.

It seems to be the standard reaction from some; when you don't tie the line of SFC being absolutely exceptional, just becoming (an impressive) one of a number of other top level sides. Some people choose to read that as inherent criticism of the club and throw out labels like "unambitious" and "Dell-sized mindset". Its thoroughly bizarre.

Hmmm. I think there's a line that can be drawn; don't give out any season tickets, but have 10 or so tickets free for ex players for every game. Players have to apply each time for a ticket, and they're given a table in one of the coporate suites amongst other fans. I did that in the old Ambassador's Suite once, Lawrie Mac hosted it and that day there was Jim Steele, Glenn C o ckerill and Jimmy Case with him. Jim Steele did a 5 minute speech to everyone, Lawrie Mac hosted it, the ex-players chatted with the guests, it was brilliant. Its a touch that the whole "keep ex players at arm's length" approach of the new regime hasn't yet come close to replicating IMO, which is a shame.

Surprised the club even let him buy a ticket and did an Illingsworth with him.... MLT

De Ridder is probably our fastest player. Jonathan Forte wasn't labelled Jonno Quick because he could whip up an omelette in record time. Pace on its own is worthless, there has to be an end product. I'd rather have someone like Matt Jarvis (fairly quick but with skill and an end product) than a headless chicken like Wayne Routledge.

Yes. We also have the benefit of seeing what that potential actually turned in to, don't we?

I'm not saying we should go for him. I know little about Davis but I'd suggest Guthrie/Davis about the same type of player. I was just responding to the comment from someone else that he wouldn't be a good signing. If we'd have signed Guthrie instead of Davis I'd be just as happy in that respect, so its a bit like saying if reading signed Davis it wouldn't be a quality signing. Our next signing will tell us a lot. So far we have captured 3 lower league players (with great potential) and 1 with top flight experience. Who all add to a squad with limited previous top flight pedigree. I see Lambert as a typical example of someone who perhaps doesn't need to have PL experience to show his qualities. So its not the be all and end all by any means, and I'm not suggesting it is. Just that, a lot of times, it can be better to have a "been there done that" type of player in the ranks.

I'll repeat; he started in 19 league games. That's half of the games Newcastle played in the league, plus sub appearances. Even if he's a backup squad player he played half the games for a side that finished 5th. Can we really say he's not good enough for us, if only for the short term? Any signing is a gamble. Rodriguez for £7M is an absolute gamble. Conor Wickham for Sunderland at £10M was also a massive gamble, which clearly hasn't worked out (yet, he may just need time). Pogrebnyak has top level experience (including last term in the PL), albeit not hugely prolific in some seasons. JRod has no top level experience, he may be awesome, he may be below par, we don't yet know. I admit I wouldn't be overly enthused with Shorey at Saints in the long term, but he's a bit of a Butterfield signing for us last year, a solid and decent option for the shirt term. And again, he's being written off because he's being released by his former club. He still did a decent job in the PL, and would good short term option (which is presumably all he is being looked at for). Yep, of course we have to take some risks, but there is also the case of finding a balance. Look at the late 80s under Nicholl, we had a brilliant set of young players breaking through alongside the likes of Jimmy Case and other seasoned pros. You mention JRod and Clyne as proven quality, I don't see they are. I think they are great quality at Championship level with an awful lot yet to prove at top level. Most indications are that they will do well but we simply don't know yet. The likes of Guthrie and Pog, you know what you're going to get, and their experience is as important as their ability.

Perhaps because there is even more risk to that sort of approach?

I think there's definitely a reality check needed for some fans, yes. Pogrebnyak has played for years in the top leagues of Russia and Germany, and won a league title previously. Danny Guthrie started 19 games last year for the fifth placed team in the PL, Shorey started more than that for a team that finished in the top half. Yet, somehow, we should be aiming higher than these players, but with players that come from the lower leagues.

Why? As has been pointed out, Reading have signed three players of PL quality without breaking the bank. Getting PL quality doesn't mean poaching from the likes of the top 4's best players. There are still good deals to be had for decent, proven players at the top level.