The Kraken

If it was that black and white, why doesn't every ex-Saint get booed? No doubt Andrew Surman will get a good reception if/when he plays us again (and rightly so). I imagine Bale and Theo will avoid the booooooo! boys too. No doubt you'll tell me that it's the manner of his departure that particularly irked. In that case, why is Wayne Bridge still treated as a complete hero? He courted the big clubs throughout his last season with us and then, in a desperate effort to leave, put in a transfer request. Yet that doesn't seem to have bothered many (rightly so IMO, but there you go).

Personally I believe it will demonstrate to the owners that, despite prices going up so much this season, attendances also rose. And therefore that a further price rise will be equally inconsequential to attendance figures, particularly when playing against the larger sides.

That's one hell of an assumption you've made there. Ticket prices are already at £30 for our games; £32 if you pay on the day, £33 if you buy a single ticket in advance and pay the ticket tax. So we're already not far away from £35. I'd suggest you're in a dreamworld if you think they'd only go up by £2 if we get promoted. Norwich have always been lauded for having a cheap pricing structure for their season tickets and match tickets. Their most expensive tickets this season cost £45. You can bet that SFC will be doing their research on other clubs and what they can get away with charging, and looking to do the same, so I'd imagine £40 or £45 will be the benchmark for us.

Do I want promotion? Yes. Although I know that it'll mean I revert to how I used to support the team last time we were there, by going to around 4 or 5 games a season. It was up to £35 for a ticket last time we were there, that was 8 years ago, with inflation that's at least £45 a ticket now. Even if we kept prices down to around £35 or £40 it's still bloody expensive for 90 minutes of "entertainment" (some of the turgid sh*te we used to turn out on a regular basis still makes me shiver). League 1 was an experience, but not one I want to repeat. This division is great in that there are no huge favourites and any team can beat the other, and as Adkins says there are 15 or 16 teams who have genuine belief they can gain promotion. So it's the perfect division for us to be in, as opposed to one where 8th place is deemed as success. But of course as a supporter you want to win every game your team plays, so promotion is always the goal. Its a strange dichotomy.

Boooooooooooooooooooooo!

I can just see it, you getting all wound up and red in the face, going "Booooooooooooooooooo!" to an 18 year old footballer who had the temerity to leave us for pastures new. Jesus.

That's all very well, but this season we've had 3 games in the League Cup and got no attendance higher than 7,500. A simple comparison but in very recent seasons we've had: 2010/11 Bournemouth, 17,135 Bolton, 10,251 2009/10 Northampton 10,921 Birmingham 11,753 2008/09 Birmingham 11,331 2006/07 Yeovil, 20,653 So we've played some decent teams and some low ranking teams. To be around 3,000 fans down on the worst of those attendances is poor by any comparison.

Correcting his grammar

Of course I agree; I'm just pointing out the folly in analysing by simplistic stats alone. I originally thought the average attendance from this year looked great, and I maintain it looks ok. But I also now realise it really isn't that simple. Also, our League Cup attendances in comparison to previous years are shockingly poor.

By that rationale, you could look at the actual opponents and attendances from games played this season, and then compare like for like against the same opponents for games played in the Championship the last time we were there. There's not many stats so it shouldn't take long. 2005/06: Leeds, 30,173 2006/07: Leeds, 29,012 2011/12: Leeds, 25,860 2005/06: Millwall, 22,043 2011/12: Millwall, 23,333 2008/09: N Forest, 26,580 2011/12: N Forest, 24,784 2008/09: Birmingham, 18,925 2011/12: Birmingham, 22,155 Average for other years: 25,347 Average for 2011/12: 24,033 Just saying.

I think you're judging it on the whims of an average fan; we will have a standard level of die-hards (who'd go to every game) then a large number who will pick and choose games. A lot of people will simply choose to go to more games against the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool etc etc than they will the likes of Doncaster, Millwall and Preston. Although Stoke, Bolton etc aren't massive names, it's still the Premier League bandwagon and a bigger highlight by association than playing Birmingham or Leeds in this division. Then you also have the factor of the hospitality suites; these are, as anyone can see on a matchday, very very empty at the moment. Less than half of the corporate boxes are full, and the suites seem to be very empty too; this accounts for (I believe) around 2,500 fans and during our Premier League days were pretty much always sold out. I'd suggest we're up to 2,000 fans short in that department alone. And I'd very much suggest that hospitality sales are hugely increased by being in the top division; lots of the corporate customers are there for a day out rather than supporting the team, and it being a Premier League is the be all and end all. Also, nothing to do with leagues, but the current financial climate is clearly going to have an effect across the board. I maintain that an average of 25K over the season would be an excellent achievement; we're 1k short of that right now, so not very far away at all.

I'm sure they will, but that'll be 3,000. We sold 21,300 home tickets against Brum so we'd have to sell 700 more than that to top 25K. On a weekday, I can't see it.

Just reporting an issue with the forum, its a new problem that has only surfaced since the move to the new server. I don't know if this is just local to my computer, but I'm often having a problem when going in to edit a post I have previously made. The three buttons at the bottom (Edit, Go Advanced, Cancel) just seem to lock, I can press them any number of times and they do nothing. I have to navigate away from the page and back again, and the edit always works second time.

Only problem I can see is that it's a midweek game; some people may not be able to bring younger kids, and it's more difficult for the longer travellers to make the game. Also, the the corporate areas (which are massively quiet anyway) will struggle as it's not as much value as weekends (Saturday games you can get there for free boozing from midday onwards, much more difficult to do during the week). I wouldn't be surprised to see a gate under 23K actually. We really need to sort out the hospitality areas; the "normal" seats will take care of themselves if the team are performing.

My head hurts after reading that.

How is it irrelevant? You were responding to a post which read: "We got promoted so the relative rise would be less than these absolute figures. As a fan base we are not used to promotions and the associated increase in ticket prices, that incidentally happens at every club." That post makes no distinction between season tickets and match tickets; you came to that conclusion on your own. So highlighting that Norwich's match tickets have risen sharply since they gained promotion is entirely relevant to the original topic of discussion. It just doesn't fit with your own argument (which incidentally is contrary to the majority of team's prices when they gain promotion in any case).

You don't understand the notion that less successful teams (i.e. those further down in the footballing pyramid) will typically attract lower crowds than those further up in the pyramid (or also lower crowds than they themselves used to attract when occupying those higher leagues)? It's not exactly a new phenomenon so I'm not too sure where your confusion stems from.

And their most expensive match ticket has risen to a whopping £45.

How do you work that out?

Is there an echo in here?

Yes, of course, it's why I put their previous year's figure of 27,299 which I think is a more realistic level of their support.

If you don't think a 2,000 bump on crowds from last year (almost 10%) is much of an increase; or for that matter than an average over 24,000 is a very good level of support, then it's not worth having the conversation. I think that's a very decent average attendance, if we could push anywhere approaching a 25K average over the season I would say that was excellent. Your comment about the ticket prices being too high; I disagree with that one, I don't think the cost of the match tickets are too far out, and I think as the season goes on and if we're not seen as a flash in the pan by fans (and not about ti implode any minute) our attendances could steadily rise. You say that you can't compare last time we were in the Champ to this time round because we're doing better this time, and because of a promotion? Fair comment, though I don't agree, and in any case I can't think offhand of a better comparison which I why I provided it. If you can come up with something better, fine. All in, i think our attendances are good. I think our biggest disappointment has been the amount of empty seats in the hospitality areas; the prices there are IMO far too high and just don't offer value for money which, in this financial climate, is all important. Without the suites and corporate boxes being anywhere near full we're very much going to struggle to push on much further than 25K or 26K crowds. I've noticed an increased effort by the club lately to promote the hospitality suites further, but I still maintain that the prices are at a prohibitive level no matter the level of marketing.

We already have a backup striker; his name is Jonathan Forte. Any striker coming in needs to be better than that, and capable of disposing Connolly; I would say Lambert too but he's the focal point of our team and, I'd suggest, the first name on Adkins' team sheet every week.

I don't see how we're missing out though by "only" having 4 on the bench. Lets look at the subs bench from yesterday; with Bialkowski we had Martin, Schneiderlin, Chaplow and de Ridder. Obviously they are direct cover for the positions they play in. Martin could also play left-back if asked (not ideal granted but he could do it). Cork can play right back if required with Schnederlin/Chaplow moved to CM. So that's all the defensive areas covered in case of injury. De Ridder can play right wing, left wing or up front, and obviously Schneiderlin or Chaplow can play CM or even wide if we're looking to shore things up. So, very easily, we have cover in all areas of the pitch. We also have the ability to change formation very easily; bring on de Ridder and move Lallana/Guly up front to support the front 2 if we're chasing the game, bring an extra CM on if we're defending it. Yes, 5 outfield subs gives us even more options than that, but I don't think we're losing out in the slightest by having the security of a specialist keeper if required.