hypochondriac

This is actually the whole point. All these people talk about how outrageous the Israeli actions are, the whole point is in an alternate reality where they had acted exactly as their detractors would have wanted them to, Hamas woukd have seized any opportunity they could get to do it again and worse if they got the opportunity. Let's not forget also that these people were voted for by the population of Gaza. They wouldn't see so called Israeli tolerance in this situation as something to be grateful for, they'd view it as a weakness that they can exploit to cause more death and destruction.

How is it not the exact same mindset but on a larger scale?

Yep. I wonder if they predicted this - doubt it - and if they privately regret their actions given the horrors they have caused. Probably think it's Allah's will or some such bollocks.

I know it goes beyond Hamas. I don't believe that Hamas would have predicted this scale of response from the Israelis though. The alternative from Israel would have been to not respond which is completely unrealistic whilst Hamas held hostages.

I'm not sure that relying on the views of an average member of the British public to lend your opinion credibility is the wisest move.

They will succeed in their aim to cripple Hamas for a generation and possible permanently prevent a similar attack like October depending upon how this us resolved which is infinitely preferable to the alternative. My view has not changed on this so I don't agree with anything that I didn't previously believe in October.

That's not all they are doing. They are also crippling Hamas for a long time. If the only thing they were doing is making Hamas stronger then yes this entire thing would be pointless but that's very clearly not the case. Is the other forum you visit the forum of the morning star?

That may be the aim but no one believed that this war will wipe them out entirely. That would be impossible.

I think almost no one has suggested they will eliminate them. Not least because load of them don't actually live in Palestine.

That's up for debate isn't it. What they have done is shown they won't accept another incident like the one in October and they've crippled Hamas' ability to respond for a good number of years I would have thought. If they use the opportunity to put a buffer zone around Israel then that will help as well. Hopefully they can also put something in place so that any future aid or money for Palestine is not syphoned off to Hamas abd actually goes to benefit the people. It's a disgraceful situation where fuel and resources were being repurposed to build tunnels and fund tools to harm the Israelis so that needs to stop.

Yep and that's the exact reason they are doing it. If it is the case that they can't eliminate Hamas, what they can do is cripple them for a generation and increase their own security in the process. That's what they're in the process of doing.

So the reason that Palestinians have nowhere to go is because Egypt have closed the border.

Just in case you were confused, it's soggy's pontificating, stating opinion as fact and his sense of moral superiority from every post that is funny.

With no kwp, my team prediction is Bazunu THB Stephens bednarek Manning Downes Smallbone Brooks Stuart Armstrong Adam Armstrong Adams

The only reason you don't think it's a war is because one side is much stronger than the other one. The logical extension of that is that you'd consider it a war if Hamas had more deadly weapons and a greater capacity to kill Israelis.

"a state of armed conflict between countries or groups within a country. Not a war if the civilian population are on the front lines." Ah I missed that particular definition. My mistake. It's obviously not a war then... Also suggesting that it's the Israeli's fault that the civilians can't flee Palestine. Tell that to the country that's closed the border. If Hamas surrender and release the hostages and this continues then 99% of those with an opinion on this will be against Israel. But that hasn't happened so a bit pointless talking about what might happen if that fantasy situation occurred.

They also hide amongst the population, use them as human shields, take their aid and money to use against Israel etc. But sure they really care about Palestinian civilians.

It wasn't a poor comparison. I wasn't comparing the respective wars I was making the point that terrible things happen during conflicts. Which they do. So it was an apt comparison. Plenty of people disagree with you about this being a war. "a state of armed conflict between countries or groups within a country." Cut and dried.

Yes they can. The point is that terrible things happen during war for everyone. The point I was making is that that's something that all wars have in common. Even soggy proves that point when he highlights the fact that the IDF have managed to kill people on their own side or hostages. War is chaotic and messy and loads of innocent people get killed. Hamas obviously don't give a single fuck about that though which is why they continue to hold hostages and hide amongst the civilian population whilst refusing to give themselves up.

Yeah war sucks and causes horrible deaths, friendly fire and terrible consequences for loads of people. Those evil bastards the allies killing all those innocent Germans just because they went and invaded Poland. Why couldn't they have just restricted their killings to just the evil nazi parts and avoided everything else? I mean that's how war works right?

Probably that bloody hypo"marriedtoanarab"chondriac. The Islamophobia is sickening.

Mad they haven't made it official yet. If I were a pne fan I'd be steaming.

I'm currently nearby and there's still a shed load of smoke blowing towards the city centre. Don't see how they can ensure it's safe in time for the match.

Looking at the video on the Echo website the whole building has gone up. I'd say no chance of the game tonight.

Wonder if they will cancel the game.