stevegrant

We cannot be a top seed for the group stage because of the teams who will drop into the group stage from the Champions League playoff round, so while we probably wouldn't draw Feyenoord as their coefficient is not much higher than ours (so will probably be in the same pot), we could certainly draw AZ if they get through the qualifiers or Ajax if they get dumped in from the Champions League.

Correct. In the Champions League third qualifying and playoff rounds, the draw is split into the "Champions route" and "League route" - basically the Champions route is, as the name suggests (more than the competition name itself), for those who qualified as league champions, while the League route is for those who got in through their non-winning league position. There are 15 teams in the "League" route. 5 qualify directly for the playoff round, which comprises the teams who finished 4th in Spain (Villarreal), Germany (Mönchengladbach) and England (Man City), and the teams who finished 3rd in Portugal (Porto) and Italy (Roma). Those 5 play against the winners of the 5 ties in the third qualifying round, which feature the 3rd team from France (Monaco) plus the runners-up from Russia (Rostov), Ukraine (Shakhtar Donetsk), Netherlands (Ajax), Belgium (Anderlecht), Switzerland (Young Boys), Turkey (Fenerbahce), Greece (TBC - currently Panathinaikos), Czech Republic (Sparta Prague) and Romania (Steaua). From those 15 teams, 5 will drop into the Europa League playoff round so could make the group stage with us, and 5 will drop straight into the EL group stage. All bar one of them (Rostov) have a higher coefficient rating than us. Add to that, 12 of the teams already confirmed in the Europa League qualifying rounds also have higher coefficient ratings than us. Pretty sure we'll be in pot 3, with the possibility of pot 2 only if basically every playoff round tie was won by the lower-ranked team.

REALLY annoying that, as a Sutton United season ticket holder, I'm away for the Pompey game

Boom! Now, let us never speak of this day again. *scrubs furiously*

Now there is a player who loves a booking

It's about 13 hours, isn't it?!

Spain loses a Europa League place regardless of which way the Copa del Rey final goes. If Sevilla win it, 1) the cup winners in Greece get promoted to the group stage, 2) the cup winners in Cyprus get promoted to the 3rd qualifying round and 3) the cup winners in Serbia and Slovenia get promoted to the 2nd qualifying round. If Barcelona win it, only scenarios 2) and 3) take place. Spain will only have Athletic Bilbao in the group stage and Celta Vigo in the 3rd qualifying round.

No. The point for me when they became absolutely laughable was when they gave James Milner man of the match against Borussia Dortmund, when pretty much his only contribution to the whole game had been to hit Shinji Kagawa's forehead with 12 corners. Stats-based analysis is fine up to a point, but this sort of thing is why there still needs to be humans interpreting the numbers, because context is everything.

Not necessarily a problem, as long as the player channels those strops in the right way - Pelle's performance against Palace when he came on was excellent, I thought. Showed exactly the right attitude to being dropped, IMO. I think we'd all largely agree that you wouldn't want any player to be happy being left out of the team, and that it's those situations that improve the overall quality of the squad because there is then competition for places.

Oh, and Grealish Played 16 games this season. Lost them all.

Townsend, Janmaat, Redmond, Ayew. And only for relative peanuts. We know Townsend has an £8m release clause.

No. To make it absolutely crystal clear, that grid is wrong. The highest non-CL league position is ranked higher than the second domestic cup winner, so it would be the League Cup winner who miss out in that not-ever-going-to-happen-in-a-month-of-Sundays scenario.

They get a bye straight to the semi-final.

Why? That's not the scenario we're in, nor is it a scenario that's remotely likely. But to hopefully shut you up so we can discuss the actual reality: Q1: 1, 2, 6, 7 (group stage), 3 (qualifier) Q2: 4, 8 (group stage), 5 (qualifier) Q3: 9

The point you're making is the ultimate straw man argument, it's a non-point. Firstly, as I said, that line is factually incorrect. The hierarchy of Europa League slots is that the highest non-Champions League-qualifying league position is first (group stage qualification), followed by the primary domestic cup winners, i.e. the FA Cup (also group stage qualification). In other countries, the third Europa League place always goes to the next highest league position, but England and France are exceptions as they have two domestic cups - for the winners of these, they get the third-ranked Europa League position, which is only to the third qualifying round. If the winner of one of the cups has already qualified for Europe via other means, that qualification spot goes to the next non-qualified team in the league - as it has always been for the League Cup place and as it has been for the last two years for the FA Cup (hence how we got in a year ago). Secondly, again, that line in that (incorrect) table is irrelevant. "If teams outside top 4 wins UCL and UEL". Liverpool can win the Europa League, which gets a Champions League place. We do not have a team in the Champions League final.

It literally doesn't matter. Your precious row 4 scenario is only for when BOTH European cups are won by English clubs.

It's wrong. The first non-Champions League place in the PL is a higher-ranking position than the winner of the second domestic cup competition (i.e. the League Cup), hence it getting an automatic group stage place whereas winning the League Cup only gets you into the qualifying rounds. As an aside, it also requires English clubs to win both European cup competitions while simultaneously not qualifying for those competitions through normal means - pretty unlikely at the best of times, and as we only have one English team in a final, I think it's safe to assume it's not a scenario that anyone needs to worry about any time soon.

A scenario that doesn't exist.

Correct. Unless you subscribe to the theory that if they're not in Europe at all next season (which would be the case if they lose on Wednesday), they'd be pretty well placed to have a proper tilt at winning the title if they make a few key signings, whereas if they're juggling Champions League commitments as well, that could get in the way.

It's in the middle of their domestic season in Brazil, so sadly it's #NoGulyNoParty

Don't think you need the "alleged" bit there when he's demonstrated it before everyone's eyes on numerous occasions. Like I said, good player for a team at our level, but I don't think he's anywhere near good enough for a likely title challenger, unless they're all going to start copying the Leicester model of being really **** at passing but winning the ball back and counter-attacking at pace. Which they're not.

Congratulations to pretty much everyone on this thread for missing the flashing neon signs saying SARCASM next to the OP.

Well Arsenal might want a player who (generally) struggles with pass completion to play in their team that has LOTS of possession, solely for the bits of the game he's really good at (tackling, intercepting, giving away silly fouls, getting sent off, etc), but I personally find it quite unlikely. He's a very good player (mostly) for a team at our level, particularly against the better teams when we don't have as much possession, but I genuinely don't see him flourishing at the highest level.

People have said that about every player who's left us. We still get by... Clasie was never brought in to replace Wanyama, he was brought in as the ball-playing part of the central midfield, which Schneiderlin offered. Clearly he's not as good as MS, his defensive work isn't in any way comparable, but he and Romeu combined offer decent coverage of the skills we lost last summer. Still not entirely sure which "big" club Wanyama thinks will actually sign him.

Either/or, really. Anything that isn't a Liverpool win keeps them below us going into Sunday. With the West Ham/Man United game, I think realistically we have to pick sides rather than hope for a dull draw. If it is a draw, it keeps West Ham below us but only on goal difference by one goal, so technically our destiny wouldn't be entirely in our own hands, as if they were to win at Stoke by more than we beat Palace (hypothetically), they'd finish above us. Man United have Bournemouth at home on Sunday, and they've been phoning it in for a few weeks now, so realistically we've got no chance of catching them - as a result, we might as well get behind them and focus on sixth place.