Halo Stickman

Oh well, if that's what you think then there's little point in me responding further

A stupid response to a stupid suggestion. If you ever find yourself on a commercial airliner that has to ditch into the sea then I wish you good luck.

We've got be careful to avoid comparing apples to oranges with the Hudson Bay plane and MH370. I think the important factor is the momentum of the plane when hitting the water i.e. its speed x mass. This determines the force it applies to the water as it hits, and the corresponding reaction force applied to the fuselage. What someone needs to do, IMO, is take the known weight and impact speed of the Hudson Bay plane and the known weight of MH370 and use these figures to work out the speed that the MH370 would need to be going in order to achieve the same momentum on impact as the Hudson Bay plane. Then they need to evaluate whether or not this speed was feasible for any given scenario. Only then are we able to make valid comparisons between these two separate incidents, IMO. Of course, the different structural fuselage strengths of both planes should also to be taken into account. By the way, Whitey, before you take Tim up on his belly-flop suggestion, I live near a notorious suicide cliff in Devon; jumpers have two choices: 1/ Jump into the sea from 200 feet; 2/ Jump into a limestone quarry from 200 feet. Both are equally effective, and those that choose option 1 do not die by drowning.

That’s a fair point, Wurzel, and hopefully one of our resident pilots could address this. I imagine it depends on how easy it is to control rate of descent, forward speed etc gliding down from 35,000 feet. If they still had fuel and full control then I guess it would be similar to crash landing on solid ground without an undercarriage – at least, for the initial impact and bounces. Regarding the interesting video Tim posted, I concede that it clearly states that the cartwheel was caused by the coral reef, and it would be churlish of me to speculate on what might or might not have happened if the reef hadn’t have been there. But, I’m glad that Tim posted it because I’m starting to feel that my six years in Ditch Group might not have been wasted after all, and, if nothing else, I’ve learnt never again to answer a post with an ‘emphatic no’. Oh, and perhaps I'll take more notice of the aircraft emergency ditching procedures next time I fly!

Are you sure it was the reefs alone that caused that plane to break up? As anyone who’s belly-flopped into a swimming pool from a high diving-board will confirm, crashing into water with high momentum renders the water like solid concrete.

Well, as I’ve suspected this has been a case of pilot suicide for some time now, I think the same as you, namely, a lack of motivation to even attempt a safe landing – unless, of course, he’d had second thoughts at some point during the flight.

That plane guilded down in a controlled manner onto the river from an altitude of about 3,000 feet. A fantastic performance by the air crew to land it on the river without a single loss of life, but a quite different scenario to that of MH370 descending into the sea from 35,000 feet, whether in a controlled manner or not. However, I suppose miraculous events – or, at least, events that appear miraculous – can happen, so perhaps it’s wrong of me to rule it out entirely. Tell you what, I’ll change my stance on the chances of MH370 landing intact in the Indian Ocean from an 'emphatic no’ to an ‘extremely unlikely’.

Just to qualify my previous post: in the late 1970s / early 1980s I worked for Ditch Group at British Hovercraft Corporation on the Isle of Wight. Back then – I assume it’s the same now – it was a CAA and FAA requirement that all fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters had to undergo an exhaustive series of ditching and flotation tests. The aim was to establish the optimum condition and best method for landing an aircraft on water. In the case of fixed-wing aircraft, this was conducted by catapulting a scale model plane loaded with accelerometers, pressure gauges, scale-strength structural joints etc, into a large tank of water, which could, by means of wave-makers, be made to represent various sea states. Various rates of descent, forward speeds, yaw and roll angles, nose to tail attitudes etc were tested in order to establish the best method for landing a plane onto water. Of course, all this worked on the assumption that the pilot would actually have control over the aircraft – unlikely in most cases. Based on 6 years experience – albeit over 30 years ago – let’s just say, I don’t bother to waste too much time listening to the emergency procedures to be undertaken in the event of a plane crash-landing on to water. In my opinion, it would actually qualify as a miracle for a plane of that size to land in the Indian Ocean – no matter how calm – without breaking up on impact.

Many years ago I was a test engineer involved in testing the ditching characteristics of fixed wing aircraft. Unless the structural design of aircraft has altered dramatically in the past 30 plus years then I would say the answer to your question is an emphatic NO.

I find the political situation in Ukraine quite fascinating: the relative embryonic state of the country renders their politics raw and unrefined; hence, their politicians tend to be, let’s say, more colourful than the homologous grey-suits in the UK and other places. I, too, struggle to comprehend how anyone could think that Ukraine would be suitable for inclusion within the EU; although, they’d certainly shake the damn place up, I suppose. As for right-wing politics in Ukraine: the furthest right ground is mainly occupied by a party called Svoboda. Two points: 1/ How relevant are Svoboda? In the 2007 presidential elections they won 0.76 percent of the votes cast. In 2012 they won 10.44 percent, gaining 38 out of 450 parliamentary seats. In a presidential election opinion poll, conducted in December 2013 during the recent crisis, their leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, won the popular vote with 28.8 percent. Of course, there were extenuating circumstances at play during this poll; nevertheless, IMO, it’s fair to say that Svoboda are becoming increasingly relevant. 2/ How right wing are Svoboda? Opinions vary: some commentators say they are extreme right, fascist and anti-Semitic etc; Svoboda dispute this, and say they are simply nationalistic. People will have to come to their own conclusions; but, having read up as much as I can about them, IMO, it’s fair to say that they’re more BNP than UKIP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29

Absolutely gutted for Jay.

A few weeks ago, I came across this article by a chap called James Sheer in an interview in The Ukrainian Week on 6 August 2013. http://ukrainianweek.com/Politics/86263 This interview was obviously conducted at a time when it appeared that Ukraine was about to sign an Association Agreement with the EU – something which turned out not to happen, precipitating the present crisis. I thought the following excerpt was particularly interesting:

… plus they have to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, grow apple trees and honey bees and snow white turtle doves, and sh4g around a lot whilst stoned senseless, dude.

Interesting question, Bear. The trick in the past has been to convince your followers that those you wish to exterminate are sub-human, parasites, vermin, infidels etc, then encourage the ethnic cleansing to begin – plenty of examples from all regions of the globe over the past few hundred years. But could this happen in 21st century Britain? With reference to Saint137’s post, a few days of empty supermarket shelves would probably be enough to see societal and humanitarian norms begin to break down. And, using some 20th century famines as examples, a few weeks of empty shelves would see people killing one another for foodstuffs, and a few months would see cannibalism break out. Happy Monday morning everyone.

I agree with that, pap. In my experience, communities like these are adept at portraying themselves as some sort of panacea for society’s ills, but scratch beneath the surface and a less rosy picture often emerges. I doubt whether schools and other institutions based on any one particular religion – or, indeed, any one particular ideology – are the best environments for developing open and independently minded individuals.

I honestly thought that if JRod, RL and AL carried one performing as they have done over recent weeks then all three of them might end up going to Brazil. Now it looks like that dream is over, I’m gutted for Jay.

I’m truly gutted – not just because of the result and the shocking offside decision, but mainly because of JRod’s injury. Over recent weeks, I’ve become increasingly confident that Hodgson might actually pick all three of our attacking players, not just because of their effectiveness as individuals, but because of the way they play for each other and their general camaraderie. IMO, if JRod, RL and AL had carried on playing like they’ve done in recent weeks then there was a chance of all three going to Brazil. Now, even if the injury isn’t as bad as feared, it’s likely JRod will miss quite a few of our remaining matches, so, for me, his World Cup chances are probably over. Desperately hope I’m wrong.

Pension planning, eh? One of the only times when being a smoker actually pays – less life expectancy equals better annuity rates. Trouble is you have to supply a doctor’s certificate stating that you’ve smoked at least 10 a day for the last 20 years or something, which is difficult when you’ve been telling your doctor that you’re a non-smoker for the last 20 years or something.

Hey Whitey, when I read that link I was struck by the following and wondered whether it was accurate: The following link shows how the National Statistics Office eliminates the problem of childhood death figures skewing their results. There are some interesting graphs of life expectancy since 1841 under the Trends in Average Life Span section http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mortality-ageing/mortality-in-england-and-wales/average-life-span/rpt-average-life-span.html#tab-conclusions

Howdy partner. I’m staying out of the sunshine in order to achieve that bandy-legged rickety cowboy look.

Posters die on the day that the latest page number of the Pompey Takeover Saga thread reaches the year of their birth – we’ll all be gone by summer.

Farmers’ wives, farmyard animals and tractors.

Visit any portsmouthfc website for your more than recommended daily intake of vegetables and fruit loops.

Thank heavens for ditzy chicks - first Courtney finds the crash site, now this gorgeous gal finds the flight recorder.

Totally agree, Steve. And, with my Hampshire tinted glasses firmly in place, I’d add Dimi and Robin Smith to the list of players treated disdainfully or discarded too early by England, not to mention the poor way they treated Chris Tremlett when he was with Hampshire.