CanadaSaint

IIRC there was a smug facial exchange between Semmens and Ralph at the last one, when they were asked about dressing room dissent being leaked to the media. I think Semmens' verbal response was something like "we're addressing that", and two players ended up being marginalized and eventually moved out. Please correct me if I've got that wrong. Not that this situation is the same (we're far from a window and we've just spent a shit-ton on players), but the dissent is clearly there, it's not just two players, the marginalizing seems to be happening, we're now in a much worse league position, and one half of the smug facial exchange is still in the room. There's little cause for optimism in that scenario.

If there's that kind of split in the dressing room I don't see a way out of this that ends up in any turnaround in results. Dressing room splits are normally terminal without some kind of unifying force, which Jones is incapable of being.

It’s starting to look like death by ego – a joint hit by Colonel (thinks he’s) Mustard in the dressing room and Professor Plum in the boardroom. FFS.

Shocked to wake up and see Jones is still here. The Club is fully aware of the toxic fan sentiment and even the negative views of high-profile journalists. That’s two strikes. The third – and arguably most important - strike would be if most of the key players want him gone. It would be crazy - suicidal even - to expect them to bust their balls to save his job on Saturday if they want him out. The ONLY thing that could explain a decision to NOT fire him today is if the majority of key players still support him. SR wouldn’t take a vote but I’m sure they’d ask JWP for some “inside the dressing room” insight. It would be one hell of a gamble to keep him in place, given what Saturday could look like if we lose again.

Two Yesses from me. I voted Yes the first time not because I was happy with the appointment (I certainly wasn't) but because I thought it was a horrible idea to run the poll before he'd even managed a game. I've even argued for a re-set in the vain hope that Jones could change his ways and both sides could lower the temperature, but that's now out of the question. We don't even need to talk about his starting lineups and tactics, as abysmal as they've been. The club now has no option but to fire him because he appears to be almost universally disliked by the players and even his fellow members of the coaching staff. They clearly don't buy his bullshit. In the space of twelve days he has publicly berated Djenepo during the First Leg against Newcastle, been forced to change his formation by his own players in the Second Leg, and sent DCC to the B Team - presumably for not toeing the line. And then there's the post below by Saint Clark from the Jones Out thread. But the clincher was his horrific, unhinged post-game comments today. If I were Rasmus he'd be gone tonight, and Selles would be caretaker-managing. At least he appears to be on the same page as the players, and can hardly do worse.

Absolutely correct. I was appalled to see that. Frankly I don't think that we or Nathan Jones gave a good account of ourselves at the start, and things have gone downhill from there. The irony is that we both want the same thing, so it is in ALL of our interests to get pride, ego and obstinacy out of the way and set things on a better footing. Jones's recent comments about playing a Back 5 and omitting Perraud (to me, the key to a balanced Back 4) - plus the decision to not attend the fan forum - show that he's aware of fan sentiment, which is a start. Relationships sometimes need a re-set, and I think now would be a very good time for everyone to commit to that. But it's going to "take two to tango". Hopefully the Club can do their part to help him curb his abrasive manner and respond to what the fans want to see, but then we must do our part and throttle back the vitriol.

I'm not obsessed with Jones at all Mr. One Post. In fact, I've complained about the fact that there was a poll on here telling him that he wasn't wanted before he had even managed a game. While I certainly had my doubts about his suitability, I was more than willing to give him a chance before deciding. Not too sure who's included in your "rest of us" group, but the one I'm most aware of consists of a large majority who have long supported this club and always will - people who have seen enough of his bizarre lineups and tactics, his propensity for blaming the players when the problem is his system, and his stubborn refusal to see that these are major problems. This isn't about Jones the person but Jones the manager. If the late J. Christ of Bethlehem came here and pulled that stuff, he'd take shit as well. If you want to talk about "weird", I'd venture to suggest that the word applies more to new posters who suddenly appear on here to defend the indefensible. (Sorry if the above reference offends your religious sensitivities.)

He certainly should but I can't see it happening. Sadly, I think he's in that type we bump into every so often in life - "I, I, I, me, me, me - oh no, that was him". Nothing endears a manager to his players more than one who takes it on the chin publicly when they screwed up. Nothing draws more player contempt than when the manager publicly blames the players for his own failures. This is why Jones needs some supervisory intervention before things get any worse.

It's so fundamental that it creates this dichotomy: if we're going to play a back 5, we have a relegation squad, but if we play a four we have a mid table squad. Same players. I'd say that about 40% of the criticism that falls on our players is self-inflicted and deserved. About 60% comes from trying to make Jones's unworkable system work. You can see the role confusion in their faces and in their movement and game-reading (or lack thereof). Salisu is a good example. Not that long ago he looked like a solid CB, and the Big Boys were watching him. But now he's caught in this mental void somewhere between CB and LB, and he's nowhere near as assured. He hasn't suddenly become a weak CD. Lyanco, on the other hand, finds a spot in our back line because we're hell bent on playing 3 CDs. For me, he either plays the Romeu role in front of the Back 4 or he doesn't play at all. So, all the marbles are down to what Jones decides/is permitted to play from hereon in.

I'm still hoping for an answer to my earlier question: who does Jones report to regarding playing affairs? We have almost total unanimity and palpable anger on here about his Back 3/Back 5 lunacy, and yet he's allowed to persist with it. I've never seen a manager so hell bent on playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths. And he does it even though the same players consistently look much better when we play a 4. So who is it that allows (or encourages) him to keep pulling this mindless, destructive shit? My only hope at this point is that he'll be forced away from it by the arrival of the new signings, but I'm not holding my breath.

He's gone

We can keep blaming individual players until we go blue in the face, but the reality is that they're being asked to make Jones's unworkable system work. The sign of a good manager is getting the best out of his players. Almost to a man, our guys have been playing as badly as we've seen them play - until Jones forsakes his nutjob Back 3/Back 5, and then everyone looks better. I could cut Jones some slack if he looked like he was learning, but his arrogance doesn't allow that. It'll be the same at the weekend when his ego picks the team again.

Jones is functioning like a manager who doesn’t report to anybody – at least anybody with any understanding of the game. It’s mind-blowing that he’s allowed to persist with formations that are clearly suicidal. Starting Bree, who’s never played at anywhere near this level, when he has an established RB and LB at his disposal was absolutely mental. Ralph was hammered for not having a Plan B, but for 80% of his games Jones’s Plan A has been dreadful. He seems hell-bent on playing to our weaknesses with his Back 3/Back 5 shit. My question is this: Who does Jones report to on the playing and tactical side, other than his own inflated ego?

Thanks, but is anyone getting sound on these?

The only semblance of logic I can think of is that it's part of a "hang on and hit them late" strategy, because we can certainly throw much more at them if we're not already out of it. The alternative explanation, of course, is Jones's recurrent desire to show that he's smarter than everyone else.

We've already got a Lavia but you just won't be happy until we sign an Areola, will you?

Given our past negotiating practice, offering the full buyout price without trying to haggle gives off a smell of owner-driven panic. I’m hopeful but certainly not optimistic when the hours and prospective candidates are falling fast.

Our back line is more balanced, and Salisu is more composed, with a left-footed LB in the lineup, and I like Perraud's positives. Pleased to see him score a couple because he adds something to us offensively. However, I can't help but fear that the two goals won't help him to address his biggest weakness - a failure to track back quickly enough when we lose possession. Unless I'm mistaken he was again on the wrong side of the Blackpool attack that lead to their goal.

You voiced your negative opinion of him shortly after he arrived, and you've felt the need to do it again and again and again in your torrent of posts. It's like you have this need to prove yourself right all the time. Give it a rest. Perraud is actually not "incredibly slow" - he's quite fast and skillful getting forward but his big problem is that he's infuriatingly slow getting back. That's coachable because you can't be fast heading north and slow heading south. His value to me is that he's a left-footed LB, which gives us some defensive balance. We didn't have that today, which caused Salisu to be heroic in covering acres of space. Oršić gave him virtually no help at all. Extremely disappointing. My fear is that we will not turn the corner until Jones plays a regular back four, powers-up in midfield, and gets the ball forward faster. But I don't think he will because he's besotted with playing three central defenders. And then, to make matters worse, he wants Bazunu to play it out to them even when they're ill-placed to receive it. If we're lucky, they scramble it back to him, and then he does what he should have done in the first place if the pass isn't on - hit it long.

I don't see us surviving this with three CDs and expecting Salisu to cover the entire back left quadrant. Trippier is pushing into that space every chance he gets. There's no discernible shape to our game. It's like a Dr. Frankenstein construction - stick some bits together and hope it gets up and walks. I'd pull Lyanco and put Perrault out there - before we get done down our left.

If there are any mea culpas, I think the mods on here deserve one - and I don't think I've ever taken a pop at them. The ill-advised poll asking "Do you want Nathan Jones to manage Southampton Football Club?" was started on November 8 - before NJ had even managed a game here. Naturally, people voted - some, again, before he'd even managed a game. Once someone voted "No", they felt obligated to move into "told you so - never wanted him here" mode, and it snowballed from there. WTF kind of welcome is that for a new manager, and what kind of signal does it send to players who hear about it? I wasn't thrilled with the appointment, and I'm still wondering what he did during the six weeks he had to assess the squad, but he didn't deserve that - never mind some of the personal shit that went along with it. Things look very different today, and I think both "sides" have learned from it, but it's time to turn the page and focus on the future - starting by locking the Nathan Jones Out thread.

That comment and his structure and tactics for the City game imply some pretty fundamental (and exciting) changes in approach. As much as I like Adams for his commitment, physicality and hold-up play, he's certainly not a good striker, and I think we looked better without him as a target man. His absence removed the option of whacking it up to him, and then trying (not very successfully) to get up there to give him layoff options. Instead, we worked the ball up with fast passing and great off-the-ball movement. Once up there, we were well-placed to apply an effective press - and quick enough to drop back when that was the right option. This package increases the chances that goals will come from the midfielders (a much upgraded area already), which - in turn - lessens the pressure on finding a "striker", although I'd still love to see one arrive. I don't see him coming back, but Ings could really prosper in that kind of set-up.

Let it not be lost on anyone that today’s heroes were yesterday’s zeroes. Hopefully that will tone down the overreaction and dilute the venom.

JWP has an engine like no other.

Clock's moving like a sun dial.