CanadaSaint

He’s in there for his left peg but gives the ball away constantly. I’d rather have Long John Silver.

The goal reflects exactly that. Bazunu was playing well off his line in order to be that "last line of defence". The major danger is something going over his head. The other big danger is that a shot will come when he's back-pedalling - a situation in which it's really difficult to adjust sideways. A keeper's widest reach comes when he's advancing, the narrowest when he's retreating. He'll let both kinds in this season - likely more to come. It's the price of bringing those "last line" things, and being the initial launch point for attacks, both of which are central to how we play, and both of which he does extremely well. On balance, for me, he's much more an asset than a liability.

Martin-ball is excellent for two-thirds of the pitch - probably the best in the division. But in the final third it just becomes frustrating over-passing with no early ball and often no delivery at all. Once the opposition realizes that there’s little threat at the end of it - usually after about twenty minutes - they start coming at us. The goal came from getting it to Fraser’s feet early, in space and pointing the right way, and an instant cross. Until we address that issue every game will look like this. When/if we do, we’ll start taking sides apart. I’ not holding my breath. I was worried when I saw Downes was out but, on a side note, it was great to see Aribo make a strong case to start. Alcaraz made the reverse case.

The key difference for me was that we played fewer final-third passes and opted for balls through the defence and earlier delivery. Compared with Wednesday night we were down 10% on possession but had about ten times the scoring opportunities. For me, Charles in for Smallbone helped that to happen.

We seem to be playing fewer passes in the final third, and opting for earlier delivery into the box or through the D. Good to see. 👍

Charles seems to bring a positivity that isn’t really in Smallbone’s skillset, and I think we’re much better for it. We don’t lose much defensively - if anything.

Adams had better be a hell of a lot more engaged - he looked completely disinterested on Wednesday. I found myself hoping that he had kicked his last ball for Saints, but couldn't remember when he did it.

Here’s a link to the interview for those requesting it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gwrhfs He’s clearly feeling some pressure – as well he should. He’s talked frequently about the need to be “brave” but the problem is that we’re not. If we were we wouldn’t be prioritizing possession over penetration as much as we do. We’d play more early balls through or over the defence to make them turn – Sulemana, Fraser and Edozie would love that. When we take the lead we try to hold onto it rather than really go for the jugular. Possession after possession we just keep passing our brains out until the defence gets completely set. About 20-30 minutes into every game you can almost see the opposition thinking “Is that all you’ve got?”, and then they start coming at us. To me it adds up to gutless football, and there doesn’t seem to be any room for “maverick moments” of individual skill that change games – I think that’s why we’re not seeing the best of our wide players, and it’s also why Alcaraz seems lost out there. Ironically, the only real maverick moment won the game for us last night. Either Martin is coaching that out of the players, or he’s trying to coach it into them and they’re not listening to him. We desperately need to find the “trip switch” that turns excellent build-up into incisiveness. That would change everything. Until it happens the fans are bound to be restless. The first half last night was mind-numbingly frustrating to watch. Having said all of that, I totally understand why he might be feeling insecure and being defensive. Let’s face it, we’ve been pretty damn quick as a fan base to start pumping bile onto our managers. In the case of the hapless, ill-chosen Jones it happened with a sickening “we don’t want you” survey before he even arrived. At some point we ALL need to remember that we’re all on the same side and want the same things.

Indeed! He’s the only thing stopping us from reverting to Martin’s “hold onto the lead” mode.

Hopefully KWP won’t get a bollocking for that - there was a pass available. 🤣

Sadly, it’s absolutely gutless football - nobody is willing to do anything outside “the system”. Every game we have all the possession until the opposition realizes we offer no incisiveness and no real threat, and then they start to threaten us. Until Martin adds an early ball dimension, instead of a 100% focus on ball retention, every game will look like this.

It’s like having a team of JWPs but without the free kicks.

That probably makes it the best stream

Stewart pulled out of one tackle at Huddersfield, just after he came on, and I wondered at the time if there was any significance in it - whether it’s physical or mental.

I knew the post would attract some pelters because some people are unwilling or unable to think about this in a broader context than just some (debatable) shots-saved statistics. It was based on the entire premise that the role of the keeper has changed significantly - especially in OUR playing style. Shilton was the second-best keeper I ever saw, and Niemi was awesome. Is Bazunu better than them across the old-style skillset? No, of course he isn’t – not even close. But his ability to be the fulcrum for launching our attacks is far ahead of both of them. That’s no disrespect to Shilton and Niemi, because that skillset wasn’t really an expectation when they were around. It’s a comment on something very important that Bazunu brings to THIS side playing THIS style of football. On that basis I said we’re a better TEAM with him in the side – not that he’s a better keeper. He’s 21, and yet to develop a lot of the reading skills, positional sense and anticipation that only come with experience. One of his weaknesses is “cheating” towards the near post, which tended to compromise his positioning, but he’s not doing that as much now. He’s already progressing along that learning curve.

You set out your position on this thread very early, and have kept painting yourself into that corner ever since. But at some point you need to put the brush down and try to think a bit more rationally. It's ironic that you take one paragraph out of three and ignore the others to suit your case - that's just like your views on Bazunu.

Probably Shilton, for me, but Bazunu is on a different planet to all of them for ball control (let’s not underestimate that part) and distribution. He is arguably a top five keeper in English football for that, and he’s only 21 - with 6-8 years until he reaches his peak. That encapsulates the futility of this now 29-page, over-simplistic debate. Shilton was the best keeper in the world for several years, but we couldn’t play a modern “build out from the back” style with him in goal. Putting it another way, in the hope that Bazunu’s harshest critics will start cutting him some slack, we’d be a weaker team with Shilton or Niemi in goal.

Great three points, but hard-earned. Some of that is credit to West Brom but some of it is self-inflicted. It's almost as though we go into some kind of mental or tactical "holding mode" after we've taken the lead, and we end up surrendering the initiative. We were all anxious about our central defence options at the start of the season but, with Stephens due back soon, we now have four strong options back there. I was disappointed to see Che coming on instead of Stewart because I'm dying to see a Stewart/AA partnership up front.

I think what we're seeing is a reflection of the change in the game. For many years up until not that long ago the criteria for judging a keeper were 1) making saves, 2) communication, 3) coming for crosses, and 4) distribution - probably in that order. Today, with the way the game is played, distribution is a far more important factor. And the lighter, livelier ball (coupled with the blocking and hand-to-hand combat permitted in the box at every corner and free kick) has pretty much made "coming for crosses" a thing of the past; it has also made the "making saves" part harder. We used to wear gloves to help us keep hold of a wet or slick ball, but now they wear them all the time to make their hands bigger. The very nature of goalkeeping has changed, but we still tend to judge today's keepers on yesterday's criteria. Keepers are getting thrown-in much earlier - probably too soon - because they grew up with the new skill set. Given that backdrop, I think Bazunu is more an asset than a liability, and he's definitely going to get better. He already has.

With a visible, physical focal point in the box that game, like several others recently, would have been over much earlier. The possession-based build-up is great but there's been nobody in the box to pick out. Stewart's going to get a lot of chances and Armstrong will be there for the knock-downs. Big word for KWP who ran miles today - all with purpose.

"We need our wide men to contribute more goals." They will - if we can get them the ball earlier. Sulamana needs it at his feet so he can run at a retreating defence - not one that's already set. Fraser needs it "in behind" and he'll be gone before they turn. Those two can take teams apart if they get their own kind of service. The crazy thing with our style is that it's both our biggest strength and greatest weakness. When we up the tempo and move the ball quicker we're very good. When we keep passing for the sake of passing, we end up giving the ball way and then have to chase back in a state of near panic. Same style, totally different outcome. So it's not just Sulemana and Fraser he needs to talk to.

When we get out of “huff, puff, oh shit - get back” mode and start moving the ball quicker we’re a Top 4 side. Until then it’s tough to watch. Same style, just crisper execution. I didn’t think we got much from the ref today but he did make one big call our way - booking Manning.

Shit! My stream has just come back.🤣

I've made the journey Whitey, my electronic friend, so I know how hard it is. I hope it comforts you to know that she will not leave your side, either. Every time I sit down to watch Saints I hear a wonderful, familiar voice in my mind saying "I don't know why you keep shouting at them - they can't hear you". It still brings a tear to my eye but also a smile to my face. Make sure you look after yourself, too, Whitey. It's easy to forget that part at times like this.

No, not at all. We know that's a vulnerability and that shit will happen, but to me it's how we need to play. The first one, I think, was an unlucky deflection but it turned us into a bag of nerves. What's the alternative - whacking it every time? There's a good side in us, but not playing the way we are right now.