CanadaSaint

That probably makes it the best stream

Stewart pulled out of one tackle at Huddersfield, just after he came on, and I wondered at the time if there was any significance in it - whether it’s physical or mental.

I knew the post would attract some pelters because some people are unwilling or unable to think about this in a broader context than just some (debatable) shots-saved statistics. It was based on the entire premise that the role of the keeper has changed significantly - especially in OUR playing style. Shilton was the second-best keeper I ever saw, and Niemi was awesome. Is Bazunu better than them across the old-style skillset? No, of course he isn’t – not even close. But his ability to be the fulcrum for launching our attacks is far ahead of both of them. That’s no disrespect to Shilton and Niemi, because that skillset wasn’t really an expectation when they were around. It’s a comment on something very important that Bazunu brings to THIS side playing THIS style of football. On that basis I said we’re a better TEAM with him in the side – not that he’s a better keeper. He’s 21, and yet to develop a lot of the reading skills, positional sense and anticipation that only come with experience. One of his weaknesses is “cheating” towards the near post, which tended to compromise his positioning, but he’s not doing that as much now. He’s already progressing along that learning curve.

You set out your position on this thread very early, and have kept painting yourself into that corner ever since. But at some point you need to put the brush down and try to think a bit more rationally. It's ironic that you take one paragraph out of three and ignore the others to suit your case - that's just like your views on Bazunu.

Probably Shilton, for me, but Bazunu is on a different planet to all of them for ball control (let’s not underestimate that part) and distribution. He is arguably a top five keeper in English football for that, and he’s only 21 - with 6-8 years until he reaches his peak. That encapsulates the futility of this now 29-page, over-simplistic debate. Shilton was the best keeper in the world for several years, but we couldn’t play a modern “build out from the back” style with him in goal. Putting it another way, in the hope that Bazunu’s harshest critics will start cutting him some slack, we’d be a weaker team with Shilton or Niemi in goal.

Great three points, but hard-earned. Some of that is credit to West Brom but some of it is self-inflicted. It's almost as though we go into some kind of mental or tactical "holding mode" after we've taken the lead, and we end up surrendering the initiative. We were all anxious about our central defence options at the start of the season but, with Stephens due back soon, we now have four strong options back there. I was disappointed to see Che coming on instead of Stewart because I'm dying to see a Stewart/AA partnership up front.

I think what we're seeing is a reflection of the change in the game. For many years up until not that long ago the criteria for judging a keeper were 1) making saves, 2) communication, 3) coming for crosses, and 4) distribution - probably in that order. Today, with the way the game is played, distribution is a far more important factor. And the lighter, livelier ball (coupled with the blocking and hand-to-hand combat permitted in the box at every corner and free kick) has pretty much made "coming for crosses" a thing of the past; it has also made the "making saves" part harder. We used to wear gloves to help us keep hold of a wet or slick ball, but now they wear them all the time to make their hands bigger. The very nature of goalkeeping has changed, but we still tend to judge today's keepers on yesterday's criteria. Keepers are getting thrown-in much earlier - probably too soon - because they grew up with the new skill set. Given that backdrop, I think Bazunu is more an asset than a liability, and he's definitely going to get better. He already has.

With a visible, physical focal point in the box that game, like several others recently, would have been over much earlier. The possession-based build-up is great but there's been nobody in the box to pick out. Stewart's going to get a lot of chances and Armstrong will be there for the knock-downs. Big word for KWP who ran miles today - all with purpose.

"We need our wide men to contribute more goals." They will - if we can get them the ball earlier. Sulamana needs it at his feet so he can run at a retreating defence - not one that's already set. Fraser needs it "in behind" and he'll be gone before they turn. Those two can take teams apart if they get their own kind of service. The crazy thing with our style is that it's both our biggest strength and greatest weakness. When we up the tempo and move the ball quicker we're very good. When we keep passing for the sake of passing, we end up giving the ball way and then have to chase back in a state of near panic. Same style, totally different outcome. So it's not just Sulemana and Fraser he needs to talk to.

When we get out of “huff, puff, oh shit - get back” mode and start moving the ball quicker we’re a Top 4 side. Until then it’s tough to watch. Same style, just crisper execution. I didn’t think we got much from the ref today but he did make one big call our way - booking Manning.

Shit! My stream has just come back.🤣

I've made the journey Whitey, my electronic friend, so I know how hard it is. I hope it comforts you to know that she will not leave your side, either. Every time I sit down to watch Saints I hear a wonderful, familiar voice in my mind saying "I don't know why you keep shouting at them - they can't hear you". It still brings a tear to my eye but also a smile to my face. Make sure you look after yourself, too, Whitey. It's easy to forget that part at times like this.

No, not at all. We know that's a vulnerability and that shit will happen, but to me it's how we need to play. The first one, I think, was an unlucky deflection but it turned us into a bag of nerves. What's the alternative - whacking it every time? There's a good side in us, but not playing the way we are right now.

It’s easy to talk about it being another shambles, which it was, and that Martin needs to go, which ain’t going to happen. What strikes me is that most of this is coming from ONE suicidal tactical stupidity. We have pace and trickery on both flanks up front. There is absolutely no need - and little to be gained - by gung-hoing the FBs up there every time – especially Manning, who can’t get back. All that does is destroy our defensive shape and make us completely vulnerable to the counter. I really don’t think it’s a case of everything is going to shit. I think it’s a matter of one crazy, destructive element of Martin’s approach. He needs to ditch it right fucking now.

Understandably, we've all been focused on the player dimensions of the squad rebuild, but I strongly suspect that there has been a very conscious attitude rebuild as well. I don't see any of these arrivals getting in the door unless Martin is comfortable that they will not only fit into his playing style but also commit to the culture he's trying to build within the squad. His style demands a high level of commitment to tactics, effort and cohesiveness, and I'm sure that's right up there with "skill" and "ability" in his player assessment. Time will tell, but right now I'm liking what I'm seeing.

🤣 “Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum.” Augustus De Morgan

Couldn't agree more. Fraser's all about using his pace to get in behind, and he'll be looking for that chance all season long. I tried a little experiment today - instead of watching our almost hypnotic passing in midfield, I watched how QPR reacted to it. They kept shifting across to cover the ball movement, and every time they did it they left an opening for the angled through-ball - exactly what Fraser could turn into a 10-15 goal season. But we're not looking for that opening - yet. Once this side gets familiar with eachother I think we will. That's what will turn possession into incision.

Sorry to hear that. How long did the fatigue last?

Hard to tell from those defensive shambolics but I think it's supposed to be zonal marking. You don't play zonal marking with so many ball-watchers in the team.

We're so vulnerable to balls slung to the far post.

If you weren't full of shit before, you certainly are now. 😉

Absolutely. He's never been a 30-yard passer and that has been one of the knocks on him, but his "knitting and stitching" in the middle of the park, with 10-15 yard passes and his incredible engine, are absolutely crucial in Martin's system. I fear that we'll miss him even more than we think. I'm not looking for a "big name" replacement but someone who can perform that role. As well as Smallbone has been playing, I'm not sure that he can do it.

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel wanting me to pick a team when all I said - and what I'll say again - is that he picked a bad side with a horrific combo in central defence, and that he had other options. I have little doubt that, with hindsight, he wishes he'd chosen one of them. Maybe try playing the post and not the person next time.

That's all well and good if you accept the premise that nobody who played on Friday, and will likely play on Saturday, could have played tonight. These are highly trained professionals, and there were numerous alternatives to the dreadful idea of pairing Lyanco and Perraud in CD. Tonight's horror show happened because "he didn't want" to utilize one of them. So, yes, I can criticize the manager - I don't have to draw up the team sheet, he does. I really like him but he dropped a big bollock tonight. At least he's starting to find out who he can't count on.

Hypo, we can keep going round in circles on this. It was our second game of the season - it's not like we're in the midst of fixture congestion, and players desperately need resting. Tonight wasn't just about players not performing - it was also about Martin dropping a big clanger with his line up. Lyanco partnered with Perraud in CD was mental. Hopefully everyone's got the message - under-committed players who are nowhere near as good as they think they are, a new manager who might well have underestimated the opposition (and now has ample proof of what we knew about some players last year), and transfer decision-makers who need to stop fart-arsing around and start solidifying a promotable squad.