CanadaSaint

It wouldn't surprise me if someone has some thoughts on this kind of front: http://www.shareholderrights.co.uk/disputes_nf.htm Here's an extract: Hell of a hard to prove, mind.

It's all very well talking about the TV money as some kind of panacea but the fact of the matter is that many Prem clubs are deep in the kaka and getting deeper by the day. The TV money isn't going to answer all their prayers. Leeds has been viewed as a bit of an exception, which in many ways it was, so the available lessons were never really learned. If we were to go into administration we may well see other (and bigger) clubs follow quite quickly as debt holders start to panic about the ability of current management to meet obligations. This is how the world started to fall apart for companies in the financial sector. Panorama's interest will not be in us so much as in the possibility that we could be the first of many.

Yes. Good point. I think there's a dam building up - just as there has been in the financial sector, and when it breaks a lot of clubs could be in administration. The news that a club like Saints - close to established in the Prem just three years ago - could fall this far this fast is going to rattle the hell out of a lot of debt holders. Even some of the biggest clubs in the UK (and beyond) are vulnerable. Of course, most will survive but in a very different world. Panorama will have a field day with this stuff.

um, I seem to remember you posting an analysis of the club's cash flow. I'm sure we're still bleeding cash (i.e., increasing the overdraft) but do you have any updated numbers?

I'm not sure that the PLC and its directors are the ones doing the "planning" any more. They have largely been marching to the drumbeat of the major creditors to this point, but it's up to the creditors whether they continue to march at all. The performance on the pitch, the increasing likelihood of relegation, the failure to liquidate assets in the window and - now - the open revolt among the fan base may well have tipped the major creditors over the edge. The shares will become worthless and the creditors will be looking for someone with the cash and smarts to start in League 1 and rebuild - with a good enough business plan to keep paying off the stadium debt and overdraft (even if it takes a long time). I hope to God (and expect) that: A) Rupert is not a person they would consider B) there are people "with the cash and smarts" who have been waiting for this moment.

Besides Nineteen, there are only two posters who have misspelt the word "hence" as "hense" on this site. One I have a lot of time for, and the other I don't know at all. Fascinating, just fascinating, but (most of) my money would be on Nineteen being a voice of Mr. Wilde - if he/she/it isn't an everyday fan.

There's always someone out there, Gemmel. It's just a question of price. The stadium is both our biggest millstone (cost) and our greatest protection (you can hardly asset-strip a Premiership-grade football stadium). And, Saturday notwithstanding, we do have one hell of a fan base with a ton of potential. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a big line-up of interested parties as long as Rupert's not standing on the forecourt with his smug grin, imperious manner and desire to control everything. It might be time to start looking for a silver lining but there is one there.

I'm inclined to buy it, tragic as it is. If: A) Relegation means almost certain administration, B) Our on-field performance is increasingly likely (almost certain) to get us relegated C) We haven't been able to "liquidate assets" in the window D) The current club 'leadership' is facing open revolt from its customer base it's not long before objective financial minds turn to a "start again recovery plan" rather than maintaining utterly futile attempts to keep things going under current conditions. In short, take the ten point hit now and start again next year. I don't think I can say the word **** enough to sum up my feelings. The only good thing is that Rupert has as much chance of leading the recovery as I have of becoming the next Pope, and I'm not even catholic.

I like Ron's thoughts but these people are likely to be extremely leery about associating themselves in any meaningful way with something that is perilously close to administration. You're going to have to figure out what roles they can fulfill that don't expose them to any liability, because that's likely to be their first question.

A suggestion (because a lot of these protests peter out in a whimper). I would urge all of you with season tickets (especially those who take kids) to e-mail the club and tell them that you will hold the club AND ITS CEO responsible should you suffer any injury due to crowd disturbances. Indicate that the danger of such injury has increased because of how the club is being run, and that it is the club's legal duty (as part of the season ticket contract) to keep SMS safe. This duty includes the need to anticipate problems where there are reasonable grounds to expect that such problems may emerge, as there are now. That kind of legal communication cannot be easily ignored - even by Rupert, and it might become a really valuable pressure tactic.

Whatever you do doesn't need to make an impact on Lowe - he's too thick-skinned, arrogant and convinced of his own value and importance to even see the message. (The only thing that might get his attention is a lawsuit in which he is personally named.) The course of action needs to make an impact on those who hold the debt. They, far more than a fractured group of shareholders, are the ones who could trigger a change in CEO. They have very little allegiance to people and lots of allegiance to their own money. Rupert, whether he'll admit it or not, is already marching to their drumbeat but they know as much about football as he does. SFA.

Wolves' first goal really originated when he was inexcusably caught offside. Free kick, pass, cross, goal. He looked as though he was "in over his head" right now, although he clearly has talent. We certainly looked much better after his departure. What worries me is the crowd reaction. Shouts of "Get him off" aren't going to help his confidence and enable him to develop.

He frustrated the hell out of me in the QPR and Ipswich games. He seems physically scared of taking on a defender, so he cuts inside - usually into trouble. This costs us the width we have to maintain in order to play to our strengths. If he took guys on he'd certainly get hacked, but when was the last time he got whacked and his marker got booked? That says everything, really. I was livid that the two-on-one down the Ipswich right that lead to the equalizer came because Dyer, with all his pace, didn't track back quickly enough. He lacks balls and I fear he lacks brains. I'm not sure what coaching can do about that.

I agree with most of what LSC posted. I was disasapointed but still proud of the team as I left the ground - effort right until the end, and that wouldn't have happened last year. Most 50/50 decisions went against them but still they kept plugging away, playing good football, running off the ball, setting their triangles and passing crisply. QPR's second goal came at a sh*tty time, just as we were getting on top, so it's really galling to hear that it was offside. Strangely, I and a number of QPR fans thought that they were really flattered by the score but that we could have conceded more goals. We're not strong enough at the back and I was sure that JP would bring on Perry when Lancashire bit the dust (bullsh*t red, IMO), although Wotton did well. I've pretty much given up on Dyer - he doesn't have the courage to take on a slow, ponderous full back and he keeps cutting into traffic (FF 2), where possession is soon lost. We need to stiffen up at the back, deliver a better final pass and take more of our chances, but we're not a relegation team.

I agree with Weston. Anything of any significance will involve dialogue between the acquirer and the major shareholders, not relatively minor transactions on the LSE.

Just over 700 as of this morning - including 4 Canucks. Also went to Stapelwood this morning. JP's training was really impressive - all about ball control, movement off the ball, peripheral vision in passing, burning opponents with speed, and so on. If the kids can pick up what JP is preaching, and put it into practice, and if we can finish more effectively, we're going to be a handful for most teams in this division. Big "ifs", big rewards, but fun to watch. Better than a bunch of overpaid, weather-beaten "stars" who are far quicker to their pay cheque than they are to a tackle. Killer didn't practice with the team while I was there but I did hear a little whisper that Rudi might start on Sunday.