CanadaSaint

Nineteen, I actually appreciate most of your posts even though I don't share a number of your perspectives. I cannot see any situation in which "the debtors are repaid in full". The stadium debt is a long term repayment proposition for anyone except the Paul Allens of this world, especially as a considerable sum needs to be devoted to rebuilding the club's playing and non-playing staff infrastructure. Whoever buys us out of administration will need to satisfy the administrator, and that also means anyone whose loan financing, in whatever form, carries forward into the new ownership. That's why I'm saying that the administrator will bear in mind Lowe's abject inability to solidify from a position of strength (the post Cup Final year), his inability to hire capable management to drive a return to the Prem (with parachute money to play with), his ludicrous experiments of various kinds, and - perhaps especially - the utter contempt the fans have for him. The administrator and the main debt holders will be looking for someone with the skill and funding to rebuild this club from Division One. Rupert clearly has neither, and I think - and hope - that he will be quickly dismissed. If that is to happen the fans must leave no room for doubt that he is unacceptable to them, and yet show how much they care for the club. So (easy for me to say from 4500 miles away and with no season ticket) that means supporting the team, protesting the ownership and understanding that there's a time for each. Another couple of thoughts after reflection: I completely agree that if a club such as ours goes into admin it will sound a "warning bell to other clubs that their 'lifestyle' cannot be supported and changes need to be made to the way they operate financially." That message is desperately needed because UK football cannot survive in its current form. In many ways it's a microcosm of what has happened to the UK economy as a whole. Please don't cite Aldershot or Bournemouth as examples of the consequences of administration. The potential in this club is major, with a new (expandable) ground, development space around it, a huge catchment area, and a demonstrated ability to attract crowds of 30,000+ week in, week out.

That's how I think it works, and I believe the administrators are obligated to consult with the debt holders who have a vested interest in the option chosen. If the fans don't want Lowe they would have to make it clear that recovery won't happen if he's still around. This is a unique power that football fans have compared with the customers of normal trading entities.

Given the proven potential of the club I'd be shocked if some decent money isn't waiting patiently on the sidelines, and so - much as I dread the prospect of administration - I think it's A) very likely to happen, but B) unlikely to be as bad as many of us fear (even though the economy is very sick). After all, the cost of starting the recovery in League One - and rebuilding fan support - is much lower than it would be in the Championship or the Prem. I would be even more shocked if any of the current lot would have an ounce credibility in the eyes of the administrator or the main debt holders. They are a thoroughly discredited bunch in both football and business terms, and it's clear that they don't - and never will - have the support of the key group for future success - the fans. Much as I feel sick to say this, I can't help but view administration as the new beginning we desperately need.

Based on that 'rationale' MLT would never have kicked a ball if Wotte was the manager. It really would be funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking.

Did he really say that? Unbe-fricking-lievable.

The only direction the "balls" are going in at our club is "up". As in "complete". From start to finish.

I know that - I'm talking about McGoldrick STAYING on when Saga's taken off. Yes, he might have taken a knock. Given the scoring records, it's illogical and can only be explained by something else buddy.

I can't believe the Saga off/McGoldrick on thing. Shocking. Wotte is so much in Lowe's pocket he might as well be his handkerchief.

Stump up what cash, um? Enough to pay off the overdraft and the stadium debt? I don't think that's going to happen, although clearing the overdraft is a possibility. In which case debt holders are going to have a big say in this because they need a business plan (and someone to implement it) that gives them a reasonable expectation of getting their money back. Rupert doesn't exactly have the kind of track record to engender that confidence. He's not just the nightmare scenario for us but (hopefully) the least desirable option for an administrator and the debt holders too. I'd be surprised if this is all down to the administrator. And if it looked like going that way, that would be the time to pull out the real protests.

I see your point but I don't agree with you, WindowCleaner. All these guys have skill to some degree or other, certainly enough to pass the ball around as long as the pass options are there. They haven't been for us because we play too compressed, don't run well enough off the ball, and waste the wing space. This plays right into the hands of the big, physical guys because they're not being pressured to turn, cover a lot of real estate, and keep pace with fast attacks. It also makes our defence more vulnerable to wide counter attacks.

Dinosaurs, indeed, Dave. In the modern game the price of failure is much greater than the rewards of success, so teams play this width-less, soulless crap that isn't a lot of fun to watch. And we're getting older by the day.

I just don't get this. Every time I've seen him he cuts inside and straight into blind alleys. We lose all our shape as players try to get out of his way, he loses the ball, and then we're struggling. He doesn't seem to have the courage to take a full back on down the line for fear of getting kicked. (It's like he went to the Fabrice Fernandes school of wing play!) It may well be down to how he's been encouraged to play, which I think is Derry's point. I think Derry's bang on. And the lack of width exposes players like James because he's got both wide midfielders and overlapping full backs coming at him.

I also remember Fred Kemp being a really good guy. Always willing to chat, keen to buy a round, and happy to hang out with fans. Just "one of the guys" and he never came close to "lording it up". And then he'd run his arse off every game. The Steele, O'Neill, Gabriel, Channon bunch were much the same. Cliff Huxford was a great guy as well - kicked the crap out of everyone on Saturday and went to church on Sunday! He was manager of Basingstoke for a while; he wouldn't just chat with you, he'd remember your name as well. The memory of people like this just makes the current game seem all the more hollow and self centered.

Perhaps Lowe is Barclays man, for whatever reason. They may not be happy with his performance but he's probably poisoned their opinion of Crouch ("look at the money he squandered") and he's the best (and probably only) bet they have right now. Any prospect for a Jackson's Farm deal would probably make him stronger in their eyes. But, as I mentioned in another thread, I'm still wondering how three things fit into all of this: 1) Lowe and Wilde, supposedly at their wits end for keeping the corporation alive, tell Crouch to wrap his 'lifeline' around his own neck and pull. 2) We hang onto players when all the indicators were that we had no choice but to sell them - almost at any price. 3) There are rumbles about at least one loanee coming back - one who could have generated a significant transfer fee income. Surely Barclays would have to be comfortable with the situation (whatever it is) for those things to happen.

You have to wonder whether something is happening. Lowe and Wilde, supposedly at their wits end for keeping the corporation alive, tell Crouch to wrap his 'lifeline' around his own neck and pull. We hang onto players when all the indicators were that we had no choice but to sell them - almost at any price. There are rumbles about at least one loanee coming back - one who could have generated a significant transfer fee income. I'm sick of the false dawns too, but you can't help wondering how all this fits together.

Stanley, I thought the share purchase price for a complete takeover (essentially, the hoovering-up price once a certain level has been reached) was set by company law as the highest price paid during the preceding x weeks (can't remember what "x" is). If so, that conspiracy theory wouldn't work. At least legally.

We've just got points from two games that I very much suspect we'd have lost under JP. We did that by not rolling over when things got tough. Not all good by any means but fight is always a sign of hope.

If they transfer or loan him out after three goals in two games there really will be a riot. Not even Rupert is stupid enough to do that. Oh, wait a minute ...

He, more than most, is a player who will do very well when he leaves us. From what I've seen of him he's quite a thoroughbred but we won't see his best here.

It's not a smiley, it's a sh*t scaredy.

The possession is 34% Saints, 66% Swansea but we've outshot and outscored them. It's going to be a long afternoon. My avatar says it all!

There's a lot of difference between paying someone to act like one of us and promote an agenda for a fee (dishonest infiltration), and a well regarded and regular poster who has a strong relationship with one of the protagonists. Sure, I get a bit frustrated with some of FF's angles but he's doing it because he believes in Crouch (not for money) and he's never, as far as I know, tried to conceal it the link.

It may well be down to what we do, or don't do, in the window. If we can't shed some payroll and ideally get some transfer money in, the noose could tighten quickly.

I hate this constant name changing sh*t. The profile thing should have some kind of genealogy section so we can keep track of the people who need to change their names because they've shot their own credibility in the arse (not just Sundance/Flashman/Fourth Bear/whatever the frick). Hard to do, though, what with changing IPs.

As long as they think they might be there's a chance they'll pay us more than Dyer's worth. How much we get, and by when, is another story. But right now they're tough to bet against with their recent record.