CanadaSaint

Fair comment on the skirmishing. What I'd be very interested in hearing are some assessments of Aaron Martin, because if he "comes good" it could transform our season - and beyond, and also enable Fonte to really shine.

Okay, then, but you still need to spend some time on the naughty step.

Actually, derry lives in Totton and he has high-level coaching badges, but why let facts mess up your ‘case’? Again (in light of the following post), why let facts mess up your ‘case’? Deppo, your last post shows how much you’re struggling to display a little maturity, so I can understand why you're missing my original point.

Yes, the pattern is that you and your ilk misrepresent things to suit your own case, and then - because you don't seem able to make a counter argument - resort to sneers and insults. In order to deliver a cheap little ex-pat jibe, you deliberately exclude from your list a number of people who attend games, understand football very well, have good connections, and are able to post considered views without resorting to nastiness. Funnily enough, geographic location has nothing to do with the ability - or the right - to form an opinion on these things. I couldn't count the times I've watched games at The Dell and SMS and been astounded at the diversity (and sometimes the sheer stupidity) of some of the comments I've heard from people who are supposedly watching the same game. It's even evident on here - check out the current views on Puncheon, for example. As I said earlier, some people on this forum really need to grow up.

I think you just proved my point and destroyed your own. What I accused you of doing was posting sneering comments and personal insults (calling people "loons") without offering a counter argument to the concerns and reservations. In your response you didn't offer any counter argument to their concerns but you DID manage to sneer again - with the "laughable response" comment. Furthermore, your entire point was that the "whingers" (your term, of course) don't come back here with praise after a good result. That, too, is incorrect. A number of the people who have expressed concerns about set-up or tactics HAVE posted on here - Alpine, derry, Weston and Fitzhugh, I think - saying it was a great result. And who gets to say what constitutes a "genuine Saints fan"? Blind allegiance is every bit as unproductive as constant negativity.

I think you and a few other people on here need to grow up. This is a discussion forum FFS, and some people have reservations which they have articulated with supporting arguments. That doesn't stop us from being really pleased with yesterday's win, and it doesn't mean we're right or wrong. It sure as hell doesn't mean that we want Saints to fail or Pardew to be fired - far from it. All it means is that we have concerns and reservations based on personal opinions. This kind of infantile sniping says a lot more about the snipers - especially when all they have to offer are not rational arguments in response to the concerns but sneering and juvenile insults involving terms such as "loons" and "mongs".

Absolutely, and that "hard-nosed" quality was usually injected by an undisputed on-pitch leader - one player who demanded more of those around him, and who could pick the team up when it was flagging or losing its way. He was especially hard on the "floaters" and those who were quick to forget the "game plan" or their role within it. Being an ex-pat I can't tell because a lot of it happens "off the ball" and out of camera view, but my suspicion is that we didn't have such a player last year and we still don't have one now. As a consequence, other teams take advantage of our fragility rather than us taking advantage of theirs. I thought Hammond was going to be that kind of player but that doesn't seem to have happened yet. And now he might be replaced by Guly, who is extremely unlikely to fulfill that kind of role.

Dave, I agree with most of what you say, but (as I said on the Reasons or Excuses thread) I do think they feel an understandable pressure at SMS. I also think that this problem is compounded by the fact that other teams raise their game when they come here. It's further compounded by the fact that AP often seems to be out-coached in the half time interval. This is why, for me, the Rovers game is a very big one for Pardew - and he has set it up to be a very big one with those comments. If we fail to perform well there, he's lost his only real excuse.

I'm very disappointed in Pardew because I think we are still exhibiting serious failings we showed last year, including the inability to break down defensive teams and the tendency to be out-coached at half time. That – to me - makes the “it’s early days” argument invalid, and most ‘explanations’ for these problems are just an excuse. Good manager address problems by making changes in the tactics and/or the squad, and in my view AP has yet to prove that he can do that. On the other hand there are two factors that IMO are valid reasons. I think Ottawa makes a good point – that fan anxiety can transmit itself to the players. It’s easy to say “They’re professionals and shouldn’t be affected”, but I can see that it’s bound to have a negative impact. Pardew mentioned this after the Plymouth game and I don’t think it’s just an excuse. Compounding it, in my view, is the fact that many teams “lift their game” when they come to SMS – the stadium, the large crowd, and our status as the bookies’ favourite to run away with the division. For these reasons I think the Bristol Rovers game is a key one because we get away from SMS and the two valid reasons don’t apply.

Given our performance on crap pitches last year, I hope they'll address this PDQ.

This is a recurring theme we urgently need to address. P.S. Proud of Miss Canada. We like our women lippy.

I'm trying to figure out how Cortese might react to us picking up one point our of six in the league but winning two cup games.

I'm in the group favouring zero tolerance but there's something strange about this. A fair number of our posters go to away games regularly, and we normally hear about it PDQ if there were any problems before/at/after a game. I don't recall hearing about any significant incidents in the past year - and certainly not any escalation in problems involving Saints fans. So, are the police right, or are they "inventing" this problem? You have to wonder what's going on here - especially when it was police stupidity that sewed the seeds for the problems after the Pompey game.

It's all very well people saying that these are "early days" but it looks and sounds like we're exhibiting exactly the same failings as last year, but now we don't even have the "impact subs" we had then. The failure to address known weaknesses (squad and tactical), the inability to break down defensive teams, the tendency to sacrifice width too early in attacks, the over-passing in meaningless spaces, the absence of a credible "Plan B", the tendency to be out-coached at half time, and the inability to reverse the hoofing trend when it appears are problems this year, just as they were last year. Something else worries me. We have brought in a succession of players who were well-regarded by the fans of the club they were leaving, but their games have gone downhill as soon as they arrived here. If we don't get Jaidi out of there, playing alongside him will take Fonte's game down the toilet as well. These characteristics are, to me, indicative of managerial weakness. And when people like Weston and Derry feel it's time for a change, I'm convinced it is.

Ironic, isn't it, given the intent of the original post? It looks like "Take it in the spirit in which it was offered or leave it alone" is beyond the comprehension of some. The progression of this thread proves that it's unfair to expect the mods to solve this when the remedy rests in the hands of the posters. The b*tchers, snipers and sneerers will soon have the forum to themselves because more and more of the moderates are becoming heartily sick of it. Many have already left.

Lest anybody think that, somewhere along the way, we forgot how to be a family club, take a read through this thread and the Markus tribute thread. The family soul of our club is very much alive and well. Thanks to everyone who has contributed, however modest or major their contribution, for making me feel so proud of my club again. But, above all, thanks to Markus for rekindling that flame.

If you knew your comments were "heartless", why did you bother posting them? It doesn't say too much for you, does it? Especially as the man in question has allowed you to continue to have a "life of saints viewing." That's yet another in an ever-longer list of the kind of needless, sneering posts that are dragging this forum ever lower. God, I despair at some of the people who post on here these days.

Markus, there's a lot of Saints fans up there, checking in every week to see how the team's doing - including my Dad and my Sister. I'm sure they will all welcome you with open arms, just as we did. Once you join this family, you never leave it - wherever you go. RIP.

What wouldn't surprise me at all is if Markus A) left formal provisions for financing aimed at achieving the objective of the five-year plan (i.e., reaching the Premier League - and in strong enough shape to stay there), and B) stipulated that Cortese should receive a minority ownership share. Granted, that's pure speculation on my part, but it would keep Markus's goal in place and ensure the ongoing interest of the man he entrusted to achieve it. If that's true, I think we can count on Cortese's ongoing involvement. And probably a Cortese who's even more determined to succeed than he already was.

I'm still waiting for - and dreading - a "What we don't need ..." from Dave Merrington. It normally triggers bad sh*t.

Excellent. Now we need to show that we can put sides away instead of letting them hang around. Let's get that second goal and then start stroking the ball around.

Of our first three games, the one that gave me the willies was MKD - just because we've beaten them every time. If we lose in the league (Plymouth), win in the cup (Bournemouth) and then lose in the league (MKD), after what happened last year, Cortese might well go completely and utterly ballistic.

Right now, this very minute, the most important part is playing out - the half time tactical talk and adjustments. I've always had misgivings about AP's effectiveness on this front, and he was out-coached again on Saturday. We'll see if it happens again tonight ...

I've always felt sorry for the poor little "z" - stuck at the end of the alphabet and regularly screwed over by the "s"! Boy, Zaints zuck tonight, eh?

Perhaps we're not prioritizing the cups this year.