CanadaSaint

Is it my imagination or has Lallana become more responsible with his defensive role since Shaw was brought into the starting line up? It's almost as though he feels a (captain's) responsibility for bringing the youngster along, and both players' games have benefitted from it.

Jesus, our individual skill and team chemistry are on a different planet compared to this lot. People kept banging on endlessly about the goals we were conceding, and justifiably so, but we'll never have a problem finding the opposition goal. And defensive woes tend to be easier to sort than a completely punchless offence. Based on that, I'd be amazed if we were bottom four at the end of the season. Touch wood.

I don't think it's any coincidence at all that Fonte is playing much better with Maya alongside him. Yes, Yoshida has weaknesses - all players do, and I think you've highlighted his. However, his reading and covering are both good, allowing Fonte to be clearer on his role in our defensive set-up, and thus more decisive and quicker to react. Those reading and covering qualities of Maya's will allow Shaw to push forward, as Clyne is so quick to do on the other side, when Shaw's comfort level in the PL starts to increase. Also, Ba and Cissé are very big boys, which Maya isn't, and we won't see two strikers that tall very often this year. I don't think we can look at players just in isolation - we also have to look at their contribution to (and fit with) the players around them. All of that being said, I think we'll be looking for someone better in the window but I very much doubt that Dawson will be available - or even, necessarily, a good fit for Fonte.

That bugs the hell out of me too. The top referees went full-time and one of the specific justifications was that it would make them fitter and better able to keep up with the modern game. Now I'm wondering whether it's even possible and it makes me think of a parallel - I'll probably get slaughtered for this! (Ice) hockey had the same problem and they eventually responded with two a two-referee system, essentially one for each half. It certainly improved things. When it comes to the linesmen in football, the same kind of challenge applies but (unlike in hockey) the offside line isn't static but moving all the time - and very quickly. With all the money in the game and the recurrent instances of bad, game-changing calls, they could always consider a four-linesmen approach. I know that's "tinkering with the game" but we either find a solution or quit whining about the resultant problems.

I'm honoured to have fallen within the field of view of such a highly self-esteemed poster. Having watched your contributions for some time I've finally found something I agree with - the first four words of your post.

You're both right

Rewriting history? Here's what you posted about Hooiveld before he'd even kicked a ball for us: I repeat, IMO we would not have been promoted without Jos. Whether he is PL standard is far from clear. Although the signs aren't too good, he was part of a collective train wreck and I'm at least willing to consider that he struggled because he and Fonte cannot play together at this level (and because Fox needed a lot of covering) rather than because he's not a good player. It could have been either Fonte or Hooiveld left out when we realized it wasn't working, because they were both playing poorly, and IIRC it was Jos because he copped an injury. If it helps to jog your memory and save you from reinventing history (as is your wont), you also posted this in August - less than three months ago: And this, just ten weeks ago: Since being paired with Maya, Fonte's play has improved big-time and he is now starting to look like the player we thought we had at the start of last season, before our bad run started - a real PL central defender who actually seems to be "hacking it" quite well now. Playing as he did today, and last week at QPR, he could soon be rated one of the Top 10 central defenders in the PL. So, wrong again, hypo. The rest of your response ... ... is straight out of the school playground in which you seem to spend so much time. As I said earlier, you really need to grow up. Anyway, hypo, I don't know why I bothered with you because I was happily buzzing about a great win today, so that's what I'll go back to doing.

No, I'm not "particularly bothered" about anything other than the fact that hypo is disrespecting someone who was crucial to last year's success just to get in one of his typical and often-misplaced "I knew better" lines. And yes, I agree that Jos may now be struggling somewhat at this level. Not "is" but "may be." None of us knows that Jos is "clearly not ... good enough for the Premier League" because the problem might have been with the partnership rather than the individual players.

He wasn't necessarily bought for the Premier League - he was bought to strengthen a Championship defence. The same "might not be good enough for the Premier League" comment could go for 90% of the squad. Do you agree that "we almost certainly wouldn't have been promoted without Jos"? Hypo didn't even want him here, so we'd still be in the Championship - or worse - using hypo's 'judgment'.

You were one of the negative naysayers who said it before you'd even seen him play. I hate this reinvention. The fact of the matter, as most acknowledged at the time, is that we almost certainly wouldn't have been promoted without Jos.

But there's a parallel argument to say that Fonte's game was never really the same after he was twinned with Jos. It might be an either thing but not a both.

Hopefully the bed is starting to dry out now.

The refs meet bi-weekly, I understand, and it would be naive to assume that they haven't addressed the issue of diving by deciding that known or suspected divers will never get the benefit of any doubt. Sometimes they go too far the other way, refusing fairly clear penalties. TBF, leaving aside the fact that we might have suffered from it today, I hate diving so much that I have no problem with that.

It's almost as though we signed another 5-8 million pound player in the Summer. I've always fancied getting his versatility into the side but the problem was that we'd have to accept the "between the ears" crap as well. I think he might be surprising himself as well as us, which hopefully means that the head stuff is gone for good. I know one thing - he covers a ton of real estate during the game, contributing all over the place.

It says a lot that folks are this p*ssed off when we won. The commentators even mentioned that a lot of decisions had gone against Saints. I still can't make my mind up whether Atkinson is incompetent, biased or both, but every time he referees us we seem to get the shaft. And I thought that standards were supposed to improve when the refs went full-time. Having said that, given how Atkinson saw things we were lucky that Ramirez finished the game.

I think we've actually looked like a good PL team since half-time against Spurs. We pretty much dominated the second half of that game and could easily have drawn or even won, we should have beaten Swansea, we were competitive against WBA (Rickie's crossbar and Davis's giveaway were tuning points), we beat QPR in a canter, and now we've dominated (an admittedly injury-ridden) Newcastle. But more to the point we've stopped tinkering and settled on an established line-up and tactical approach, and Corky has filled a vital but hitherto-unfulfilled role. The chemistry is really developing before our eyes. We were getting into winning positions but surrendering them. Now we're getting that vital second goal and keeping our lead. We'll still have some issues and we'll see some more disappointing results but overall I'm more optimistic than at any time since the final whistle at City.

You really need to grow up. You whine like an adolescent schoolgirl at the merest sniff of what you perceive to be an insult or a personal remark, and then you post this kind of sarcastic sh*t when someone voices an opinion you don't agree with. FFS even when we win we have to read this kind of crap.

One really good sign for us is that we don't really have one standout "Whenever he plays well, we play well" player. The way our team is set-up involves everyone, and that makes us tougher to shut down. Despite all the depression of the early days, all we really needed was some defensive solidity and an end to the habitual ball-watching and individual errors. Kudos to the coaching staff for the progress they have made.

We're starting to see the benefits of a stable line-up and tactical approach - all over the pitch. The chemistry is really developing well now - at the back, in the middle and up front, which is crucial for our playing style. I love seeing Puncheon and Clyne going down the right with pace, and Shaw is gaining in confidence with every game, which will give us the same dimension going down the left. I really enjoyed watching Ramirez ghosting around today, knitting things together with lovely touches. Rickie does so many things well - his deft, little lay-offs are a joy to watch; I worried that he was losing his scoring touch by becoming too much of a build-up player, but he's crucial to how we play. Offensively, our ability to keep playing in tight spaces is Top-8 standard or even better, while the central defensive quartet when we don't have the ball (Schneiderlin, Cork, Fonte and Yoshida) is actually starting to look very solid.

IIRC the last time we got our hopes sky high based on our opponent's injury crisis we were whacked 3-0 at Brighton and lost Rickie to a straight-red. Football has a way of poking you in the eye with that stick. I'm much more concerned that we quickly establish our brand of front-foot football and score when the chances come, which we didn't do at Brighton.

I'm interested in constructive thoughts as to why this is happening (i.e., hopefully not stuff like "Adkins is out of his depth.") Is it something we're doing or something the opposition is doing to us? FWIW, as I said earlier, it's almost as though we've developed this "waiting for something to go wrong" mentality, which could figure into things because it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Someone urgently needs to get inside Lallana's head because he's rapidly becoming a cop-out player. He's reluctant to take his man on and prefers to double-back, he consistently spurns chances for an early shot, he opts to dive when in good positions, and he's very slow to go with his man when our attack breaks down. And yet he has more than enough ability to play without all those failings because we've seen him do it. It's getting to the point at which he doesn't need coaching, he needs counselling.

They lead against us, too. 'nuff said?

I agree with that assessment. Part of the problem up front is that our attacks are meant, more often than not, to culminate in a Rickie finish. But Rickie is playing like a build-up player. Don't get me wrong, he's very effective at that but the finishing part seems to have gone AWOL, and we desperately need it back.

True, but Mayuka's all over the shop - deadly one week and somewhat-clueless the next. He was lethal against Fulham but a bit Ali Dia-like when he came on at West Brom. We were going quite well today, as you noted earlier, so there was little to gain and much to lose with that change.