egg

That's the abbreviated version.

I won't bite on the spouty noise, save that suggesting that anyone is trying to justify the Bondi attack is well out of order. The sad reality is that you haven't uttered one word against the behaviour of the Israeli regime, or one word of support for the Palestinians. Those that do have sympathy for the Palestinians have all expressed condemnation the Bondi attack as appalling. I don't think your moral compass is as well aligned as you believe it to be. Simple question. Do you really think what happened in Bondi has nothing to do with the treatment of Muslims by the Israeli state?

They need to hear it. They think they have public support. They had it last year, but not this time.

How would you fix it? Cave in to the greedy sods? They had their reset last year and can't reset again.

Yes, a common factor. I have not said that there would not be killings regardless - that's not been the discussion. There will still be fanatics doing mad stuff, there and would still be excessive interpretation of Sharia law, but there wouldn't be retribution type attacks if there was no reason for retribution. Anyone who suggests that there is no link between the mass killings by Islamic extremists and the mass killings of Muslims needs to give their head a wobble.

Indeed. They're not, and his point isn't in context with the discussion or the comments.

I've said that the origins is in religion, and we won't know whether the motivation is more one thing or another. Where we appear to disagree is that you feel that religion is the primary motivation of these loons, wheres I feel that's a factor but that events and persecution is probably a bigger factor.

Ask yourself which religion has been the most persecuted since the end of WW2. It's madness to point to books rather than events for motivation.

You can fish all day poppet, I won't bite.

We'll agree to differ. For me, throwing the blame at religion is akin to putting fingers in ears to not listen. The troubles had it's roots in religion, but that factor became entwined with all sorts of others. Nothing in the bible told loons from Derry to blow up hotels and shopping centres on the mainland. Sure, I appreciate that the disputes are vastly different, but the point is that extreme behaviour can come from extreme behaviour ahead of other influences.

Exactly, although more research is needed to look at potential links between all forms of neuro divergence and lifestyle choices, diet included. ADHD is being diagnosed at a rapid rate. Something is causing that, and I don't buy "awareness" as the only or even the main factor.

The assumption is the motivation. There's overlapping issues. Sure, there's the extreme interpretation of Islam. There's also lived experiences. The motivation for retribution for the latter is not all about religion, it's also based on anger and a lack of hope amongst other factors. It's simply wrong to to assume that the behaviour of Muslim lunatics must be based on religious teaching and fundamentalism, and without outside factors being a contributing or primary factor.

I understand the issues fully. This is not a single issue issue.

Nobody has explained it yet...can't do much about having a stretch of water between us and France. For me, the solution is in part in removing incentive, and then a very streamlined process for processing people who arrive. I'm talking an on paper decision within a short period, say 21 days, then a short time scale to lodge an appeal and with very tightly defined legal parameters, then a load of Tribunal judges thrown at deciding appeals within a very short timescale, then limiting appeals from there. That still takes time, and money, but the simple reality is that people are here and will arrive here. It's about what we then do.

Would be a lucrative way of funding Reform. Chuck in a free flag with every booking and the masses would be all over it.

That's your assumption. Bondi may have been in the name of religion, but I suspect it was warped retribution against any Jewish person who got in the way, albeit perpetrated by a Muslim. That doesn't make it in the name of Islam. I'm not interested in a long exchange on this, but it's worthy of note that in the Israel/Palestine issue, the indoctrination and wish for indiscriminate killing is very much a 2 way thing. People have convinced themselves (or been convinced) that it's one way.

Indeed. I don't pretend to have a solution, and I suspect that's in part due to their not being an easy one. Ask any flag bearer/ Farage fan what they think can be done (I have, to several) and all you hear is shoot the boats, shoot them, send them back (nobody says where or how), or the default cop out of "I dont give a fuck, I just don't want all them rapist's here". Brilliant. In reality, I think removing incentive is the only feasible way.

Yep, and doubtless in true french striking style, they'd be burning the lifejackets and dinghys in protest.

I hadn't appreciated it was so many in each boat, and yep, it's a lucrative business. A few cheap lifejackets, a little dinghy, load the boat, then bob about a bit until the British ferry service pick you up. Christ knows what the answer is, but one is needed.

737. Jeez. We've just had a leaflet through the door about a consultation over building 200 new homes locally. Assuming 3 people per home, that development wouldn't be enough to house just Saturday's small boat arrivals. One days arrivals needing a whole housing development is not remotely sustainable.

All I can see is that a few people here have assumed that this was an attack in the name of religion, and others have assumed it's at least in part borne from the actions in Gaza against Palestinian Muslims. Whether it's more the former or the latter I doubt we'll ever know.

As has been said by I think Badger, this wasn't an attack on "us". It was a targeted attack on Jewish people.

The extension of people making points and asking questions to support their position, is that they often dampen contra points, often with criticism. Your comment that people who side with Palestinians are vile human beings is a case in point. The reality is that all extremists, and extreme regimes, delight in killing. That's not a "what about" comment, but rather an uncomfortable truth. I'm trying to avoid emotive language or rhetoric as what has happened today is bloody appalling so I'll resist expressing opinion about people who don't support the Palestinian plight.

The origins of this is religion, then it became about land, and then horrendous circular attack/retaliation. It's wrong to suggest that it's all about religion, and that Israeli action in Gaza has not increased the risk of attacks against innocent Jewish people.

I'm not making the side/side point. All I've said is that victims aren't necessarily on any side, and today's certainly weren't.