Rasiak-9-

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with most of this, the only thing I would be slightly critical of is the lack of curiosity as to why an awful lot of people might have felt this way and as such, not been quite so receptive to the kind of realism you'd like to have injected. I mean after all, even if you are completely right, what alternative do you present these fans with? That there is no longer any chance of their club winning a trophy beyond a cup that only grows in meaninglessness with the money in football floating further and further towards the very top? That whilst their ticket prices go up to pay for a supposedly higher standard of football and entertainment, they must accept that any player showing the ability to play for a team at the level to which they aspire will immediately leave? That there is essentially a massive cap on how far a club like Saints can go? That 8th really is the best we'll ever come up with? And finally, with all that being true, that these fans still ought to support the club of their home town to the hilt and convince their sons to eschew the temptations of the small group of clubs that modern sports media considers relevant? As I've touched on, as time goes on even fans of the smaller clubs are collectively growing less and less bothered by the cups. Only 15k were present at the Stadium of Light in an FA cup round of 16 match between two Premiership teams who both played the ressies. As such, a fan in his teenage/young twenties, who really remembers very little else about these competitions other than them being just another trinket added to the vast collection of trophies that the big clubs either casually scoop up or don't even bother to properly compete for could easily be forgiven for not being all that arsed about them either. It isn't just the draw of Premiership glory, its utter desolate indifference at the alternative; that the best we can hope for is to feed off the scraps of the big clubs and hope that one day we win a trophy that none of the 'proper' teams bothered to seriously go for. You're like the Richard Dawkins of mid-table football clubs Turkish, disappointing the faithful, making the (correct) point that their being disappointed doesn't affect whether something is true or not, but not presenting them with an alternative that they can live by!

What are we basing this on? Or is this just another "well it sure would explain a lot" type post.

Nowhere near enough pace and doesn't have the build of a winger. Any decent left-back will have him in his pocket all day long. Put it this way, can you imagine someone like Shaw giving him a sniff if that was the right-wing/left-back duel against Man United? Horrendous idea that I'm 95% certain would be doomed to fail and could well be a bugbear with the fans this season if we're going to try and save money by 'converting' a player rather than buying a proper right winger.

I know what you mean, but not a lot of people remember just how terrible Lallana was in 08/09 when we were relegated from the Championship. He scored one single, solitary goal, could hardly cross a ball and weird as it sounds now, couldn't beat a man. After that the bigger clubs lost interest as despite his improvements, he was just another player who had only shone in League 1. By the time we were then on the cusp of the Premiership, it of course made sense to stick with us. Even in our first season in the Premiership he was pretty ordinary. He really has only had one truly excellent season in the top flight. After which the big clubs came calling and off he went. I don't think he's been *disloyal*. But I don't think his loyalty has ever really been tested.

Because when players like Ramirez take the honest approach and say that the fans of their new club use it as a stick to beat them with?

£30m is a good price. Its a mutually beneficial deal and I'm happy. 2 years ago Luke Shaw didn't even frickin' EXIST. Now we're £30m richer and have every reason to believe there are plenty more starts growing in our academy. Long may it continue.

http://www.football365.com/f365-features/9361285/Ratings365 "20. Adam Lallana (91 minutes) A massive let-down. He was supposed to provide England's X Factor, the two-footed little box of tricks, but two largely unsatisfactory pre-tournament performances saw him sidelined for Welbeck in the opening game against Italy. Since then he's done bugger all to suggest that Southampton should be asking anything north of £20m for his services." In the words of Ian Malcom in Jurassic Park, I hate being right all the time.

Just as vital in the team. More of a leader and does put his mouth about. Occupies a role within the spine so much less of an individualistic position on the football pitch. Carrot-and-stick reward for loyalty, hopefully get the fans singing his name a bit more*, maybe encourage him to drive the team forward and play that killer pass/shot a little bit more etc. would be some of mine. *Just on that point, I remember the Northam singing his name as the players did their lap around the pitch after United. Morgan's face lit up like a Christmas Tree and he grabbed Ramirez, turned around and sort of gestured in that general direction (he was walking towards us in the Itchen). But yeah, bit of a side issue but the guy likes to feel appreciated and you can tell he's fond of our support. A lot of players really wouldn't give a monkey's in that situation.

The Ramirez camp seems totally split between people who were at St. Mary's that day and those that weren't! The second half was the best individual performance I've ever seen from anyone in a Saints shirt, including Lambert or Le Tissier. Ramirez didn't score, but he controlled everything. It was like watching Pirlo except he was running up and down and effortlessly beating players as well. Every single pass perfectly weighted. Final score could have been 6-1 if everyone took their chances. It was a Premiership game and Ramirez looked like he was playing well below himself. Genuinely remember thinking he'd easily end up at a Barca or Real Madrid for ~£35m at the time at the time. Meh...we were wrong in the end. But the ability that he has in his locker is something we wouldn't dream of p*ssing away if he were English.

Absolutely. Shake hands. Thanks for your time here. Wishing you the best of luck in your career.

Word. That was a team with two players who'll be playing in the Championship at centre-half and they've kept a clean sheet against the World Champions.

Holy mackerel is that head and shoulders the best post I've seen on any football forum in a long time. Absolutely bang on and wonderfully articulated. Amen sir.

You don't think we could squeeze the price up a few million? Even with the offer of having it sorted before the World Cup, before the price potentially shot up and before other suitors came a-calling? Either way, everything I've said pretty much applies at the same rate if we sold him for £25m. Literally we're the only ones who think he's worth as much as that. Selling him quickly for £25Mn and moving on briskly and confidently into the transfer market ourselves, whilst establishing that Shaw can have his move to United for £27Mn and that these two players would (amongst other signings) quickly be replaced would have 1) kept the wolves from our door re. other players, who the footballing world would know would cost a bomb as we have enough cash in the tank not to have sell and 2) kept the confidence high among the rest of the squad, hopefully encouraging the Lovrens and Schneiderlins to stick around for the next season at least. We are going to lose both Lallana and Shaw this summer folks. That much is a sunken loss. We cannot afford the opportunity cost of a £27Mn full back. Burying our heads in sand has had the effect of lowering their possible price tags, making our management look clueless and our squad look absolutely desperate to leave and very much vulnerable to tapping up/unsettling.

I literally don't understand the sarcastic response. Is what I'm saying all true and merely patently obvious? Or is there something wrong with it?

(In before some old chucklehead scoffs and says words the effect of "Yeah! selling our captain sure makes us look like we're the ones in control! " But picture the alternative scenarios: A: 1) We get a bid from Liverpool. We're happy to sell at the right price. Negotiations begin. 2) Liverpool want the player before the World Cup, we use that point as a negotiating lever and duly negotiate them up to a £28m buying price. 3) Regardless of how we feel, literally 90% of neutral observers see this as us absolutely bending Liverpool over, are impressed with us driving a hard bargain, see Saints as getting a fantastic deal and as a club that will sell players only at the right price. 4) With money in the bank, our players feeling more clear about various players' future and our stances on selling anyone, clubs are far less keen on tapping our players up and trying to unsettle a club they see as nervous and insecure when it comes to keeping hold of their players. Scenario B 1) We turn down various bids. Slam the phone down on any potential enquiries about other players, and look positively amateur and nervous. 2) Other clubs smell blood, not just about Lallana/Shaw etc. but about the entire, unsettled squad that looks like they don't have any confidence in the management. 3) Players start rebelling, putting in transfer requests, our negotiating position crumbles. 4) Lallana etc. have a disappointing World Cup. Price drops further 5) We sell our players later, on other clubs' terms and at a lower price, we don't have replacements lined up. Chaos ensues with players insecure about their future, mistrusting the management etc. and the bank run begins. Does anyone feel the way I do? You could say "oh well how about we just don't sell our players?" but thats completely delusional. We aren't going to hold onto players who merit the attention of big 6 clubs (yet) and to suggest that Luke Shaw is possible one of the best left-backs in the world already and yet he should stay with us, play at a lower standard and earn less money is just looking through Saints-tinted glasses.

I'm one of the few people who's a big fan of your posts normally even when most people are slating you, but come on... If Lovren's leaving its to join a bigger club who pay him more money. That's the reality of football these days. He isn't a Southampton fan but he's given everything for the club so far and if he'd like to leave its disappointing but sod it. That's football nowadays. The bitterness is daft.

Word. If we want to take the moral high ground we should have played all of them in the Premiership and duly embarrassed ourselves as a mark of gratitude to their service. The bank run phenomenon (irrational to start one, rational to join one) is in full swing.

Yakin is available at 25/1+ at most bookies (and being bookies those odds are obviously as stingy as they can get away with) so there must be some knowledge they have that strongly hints it won't be him.

This. The attitude displayed in this thread is exactly why other teams are calling our fans arrogant and delusional. If you were offered a higher profile job that paid you more money what would you do? The most annoying thing is that the Spurs fans I know have been desperate to see us as being annoyed that they've taken Pochettino and would really, really like to think we're incredibly gutted about it. The funniest thing is when I tell them that I'm not bothered at all and that 8th place wasn't really any sort of overachievement with the players we had at our disposal they're incredibly frustrated. Its a lot like in the Simpson where the bullies take Bart's junior campers outfit, throw it around for a game of keep-away and Bart just shrugs and walks off. Jimbo then grabs him and says "You better pretend that you want it back!"

Oh pfft....typo. Good spot though, cheers! You get my point anyway, ha!

Ah good to see him get a kick! As I say, I can't see him playing in the World Cup unless France can top the group in two matches and Deschamps plays a total second-string in their final game against Ecuador. Would be very surprised if we see any more of Morgan in a French shirt between now and their Euro 2016 qualifying campaign. But hey! Whatever. Lallana is two years younger than Morgan and two years ago hadn't even played in the Premiership let alone come close to his national team. Progress indeed!

Doesn't look like it does it? You'd have thought he'd give him a run out just to make sure that each of his players had an opportunity for a run-around really. Think he'll be an uncapped player though. Barring perhaps France topping the group in two games and Deschamps thinking his best bet is to rest the first team and going with a complete second XI. France looking terrific btw.

What are they supposed to say?

Patience of a Saint!

For 25m I'd let him go. He's simply not worth that kind of money. Great player but not worth that.