S-Clarke

That's how I see it, I believe they went into that hearing with the approach of 'We have already decided we are expelling you, you now have to prove to us why we shouldnt' - that's basically how I read it. And given our defence, that was that.

Exactly that, I notice we reference the Leeds case in our 'submissions' - but we could have also played that Leeds approach ourselves. Bielsa owned it from the outset, took control of the narrative at the start. Done. Accepted. We let Boro run away with it, we went quiet and by the time we realised they were ripping us apart, we couldn't get up.

Basically, the club have mishandled the offence, mishandled the response and then mishandled the defence. We gave this to Boro on a plate. It really is fairly damming from us in that sense. All of these terrible decisions SR have made over the years are now starting to make some sense, we really don't have a clue. The worst owners in the Country.

I'm coming out of this even more angry at the EFL to be honest, we've been done over like a kipper here - for what? A decent defence could have pushed that, why didn't our intern - who was talking, apparently - claim he was setup? Why wasn't he pushed to present that? It's clear that's what's happened to me, but no one seems to have pushed this angle. But to be 100% clear....what we did isn't right, but equally Boro's tactics here are equally as bad in my view. Neither of us should be in the playoff final.

Let's not forget that Middlesborough explicitly asked for that EXACT sanction on their own website, before it was even announced. A Statement From The Club

Yep absolutley, so angry at everyone for this. I know some people are saying Boro are the innocent party in all of this, but they've played this just how they planned. The 'whistle-blower' has given Boro some goss long before we spied, they have thought ok....try and set him up, see if he bites, then we can get him caught and setup a coordinated media onslaught so we can gain an advantage in the playoffs. We were just too stupid to see it. We shouldn't have been doing it anyway, and I think we've been doing it for a long time, but the way Boro have gone about this is very dirty. For footballs sake, Hull need to win.

Is your name Will? You seem to know a bit about Boro's pitches

He's fucked us here. How he's defended our club is almost as bad as our defending in our last PL season, maybe worse.

Fell into a trap, hook.line.and.sinker.

There are so many holes in this, even a college defence could have pulled this apart. WTF have we been doing?

I'm sorry, but that release is so weak in many ways - from both ourselves, and the EFL. In terms of us, what a bunch of absolute prats we have defending this club. We've been punished because we literally laid down to have our belly tickled. Had we had some balls and front we could have contested this, because there are certainly lots and lots of flimsy elements around Boro's and the EFL's approach here. Our defence was non-existent, it was pathetic. The pile on from the EFL was equally pathetic, not even bothering to consider the Leeds incident doesn't scream fair to me, does it to anyone else? Overall I think this shows us up as an amateur club, but we all knew that didn't we? We've been so, so stupid here. Heads will roll over this, they have to - because we have literally just let Boro tickle our tummy here, from both falling for a trap (I'm sure we were trapped into this) and then having the most weak attempt to defend I've ever seen. I'd also end by saying Boro's games here have been equally deplorable too. An orchestrated effort all around the media to pressure the EFL into pushing for expulsion, to the point they even asked for it on their website. Sadly we had nothing about us to fight back. New leadership needed ASAP.

Not to the blatant level, no. I think it's been really poor form from us. This is seemingly an fully orchestrated and organised systemic spying campaign to try to gain advantage over the course of a season, however minuscule the benefit would actually be. Sure, there may be the odd occasion where you spot something or have a bit of info that you share, and players always do have tit bits they hear, and x or y share things here and there - but reading through everything it's the systemic and seemingly purposely orchestrated approach which has caught everyone a bit by surprise I think.

I wouldn't buy any of that. If he said - 'this is common practice everywhere' , that doesn't mean it's fair game and right to do does it? Guns are legal in America, it doesn't mean I can drive to Lidl with one in my car in the UK.

They believe initially they have a legal case to be automatically promoted, but they're going to play the final to get there fair and square. That's what their own has said when working with their lawyers. If they don't win - expect absolute carnage from Hull, lawsuits directed at the EFL in the first instance I'd say. None of this is fair on Hull, they've had an amazing achievement to get where they are. They don't deserve any of this mess which we have created, but the EFL has amplified. I'm almost certainly a Hull fan on Saturday if there is any justice.

To be fair, players going or even coming is way down the list of 'happenings' at SFC for some considerable time yet. Players will want to leave, of course, but a lot of water has to go under the bridge. There's a lot to sort out, which I'm amazed to see we've come steaming out of the blocks on - yeah right. We'll have to deal with sponsors, FA investigations, management, coaching, analysts, scouts, all long before we can think about what players we will or won't have.

Personally, I'm not buying the ridiculously weak defence that he didn't know it was a rule. This sort of activity, with or without a rule, is considered grubby - let's be honest. It's considered a bit dishonest, not fair game. It's not the crime of the century, no, but it doesn't need a 'rule' written down to say it's a grubby activity to do. Of course other clubs do it, there are loads of grubby people in the world of football. That doesn't mean it's fair game to do it. The problem with us is that we were so, so, so bad at it that it's backfired in the biggest possible way. He is inexperienced, niave, I think he's another example of a 'young inexperienced' footballing person who has been thrown under the bus by SR in some respects, but he should still take responsibility for his actions as we didn't need to resort to those tactics.

This is Southampton, we are the kings of dawdling and being 'calm and relaxed' about every situation.

I've noticed the Boro fans starting to go after the Hull fans because they're whining about the decision. My biggest hope out of all of this is that Middlesborough become one of the most loathed clubs in the country, because they'll start on Wrexham next if they launch any form of appeal attempt.

This is a great post. Sums it up perfectly, I too have the feeling Boro have played a dirty trick here to give themselves two shots at Wembley. Not saying what we did was ok, because how we laid this all on a plate for them is so fricking embarrassing and heads should roll for that alone. But please, for the fairness in everything, Hull need to beat Boro - and those games against Boro next season are going to be seriously tasty.

Steve Gibson.

Yep that's pretty much it, both very balanced in their views I found. It isn't proportionate, but we gave them an opportunity to take us to the cleaners by being so stupid during the event (stupid enough to be caught), and then so, so stupid with how we handled the fall out. Boro have piled on, of course they have, but our inexperience and amateurish nature around all of this has allowed that to happen.

Absolutely. Sell up, take the financial hit as they deserve to lose out financially given what they've done to us, and give the keys to someone who knows an inch about football.

We're currently calm and relaxed about the situation. Jordan Sibley is just drinking his cup of tea.

This argument is really winding me up. Worse owners around? Look at the what the fuck these guys have done to this football club since 2022! Just look! Don't mind me if I do ask for a hell of a lot more than we have today.

Can no one remember the trouble we had before? What? What about the trouble we have now? Do you ever look at the current situation? The trouble we have now is REAL, CURRENT. It isn't changing. They have relegated us TWICE, once with a record low total, spent £300m on absolute shite, gone through too many managers to remember, and have now managed to orchestrate our removal from a final because of our incompetence. The EFL have been ridiculous, yes, but this is another sorry show on their watch. We will start next season on -4 points. We are in the midst of chaos today, not tomorrow, not in the past. Today. Wake the hell up Manji. Your head isn't just in the sand, it's been buried in it and it's about to resurface on an Australian beach.