S-Clarke

I mean own up to the fans, hold their hands up to the fans, apologise etc. They've not publicly owned up to anything, apart from Parsons in the fricking boardroom at Boro. I still can't get over that bit.

Yeah that's absolutely the longer term goal, but in the short-term they won't be able to sell us overnight - so just own it and then fuck off is my feeling.

It's a good point! But wasn't the argument made at the time that the fans shouldn't suffer, they didn't choose the owners, they didn't spend the money etc etc. The points deductions were enough. But it's the same argument here. We didn't chose our owners, we didn't decide to spy and we weren't part of any WhatsApp groups.

I can't imagine they will own up or apologise to us. What we'll get is some waffle statement about how we feel the punishment is unjustified, and how we will seek further legal advise. We advise all fans to continue checking the OS for updates etc etc etc. If the appeal fails, the best thing for this club to do would be to apologise and just draw a line in the sand. A big video piece on the OS with Dragan and everyone else, outlining how we shouldn't have done this, what is being put in place to stop it again, and how they will be reimbursing the fans for all this nonsense. Let our local journos get unlimited access to everyone and provide a big apology to the clubs involved too. That's the only way we can play it if we wanted to try and get people back on side, and 'try' to recover ourselves after this charade.

Because they're incompetent.

And that's why it feels unproportionate. Is a 4 point deduction in the league, the equivalent of being kicked out of a single £250m game? I'd suggest no. You can make up a 4 point deduction, it's a pain, it may harm you but you can try and make it back. But you can't make up an expulsion, this result doesn't just harm the club now - it harms it for many, many years to come financially. We should have been fined for the build up to the playoff incident, quite a heavy amount, and ordered to pay compo to Boro with further staff sanctions. And then taken a point deduction on the chin for those incidents in the season. It would have still thrown Saturday into chaos with probably an interim coach in charge, but it would have been a neater outcome than all of this. The 'kicked out' compared with -4 points, for the same event, feels too extreme - unless we did worse to Boro which we don't truly know about yet.

I will always stand by the opinion that the EFL have made a right royal mess of this. Like you say, they should have paused the 1st game - or at the very least, the 2nd game. Do this 'quick' deliberation they did, let us appeal, and then we know. If we're kicked out, the team who finish 7th get a crack in a 2nd leg at 0-0 against Boro. By letting it drag on to just 3 days before the game is incompetence on par with our morons. Giving Boro a free ride to the final feels unfair in the context of everything.

Yeah, the atmosphere at Wembley, the craziness at Leicester and the atmosphere at home to Arsenal were fricking amazing. Felt great to be part of all this again. But now it all feels so sour, appeal or no appeal. Can't get over that.

I'm not going to predict anything at this point, this has been so unprecedented we simply have no idea. Look at yesterday, we were still selling tickets at lunchtime - so you cannot predict any outcome at this stage. My best guess is that it won't be overturned, but I didn't see them expelling us at that notice yesterday either.

We shouldn't have sent him out on loan, we could have just sent him out as the spy instead. One way to have got rid of him. Small enough to be hidden behind a tree, he may have dropped the IPhone though.

A fair view from a Boro fan - doesn't feel they should be rewarded, just give it to Hull. I don't say I disagree, it would probably feel a bit odd for Hull - but they got there fair and square by beating a strong Millwall side. Hull/Wrexham/Derby/Millwall being punished whilst Boro rewarded. The legal quagmire this will open is going to be huge.

Yep, every single part of this has been a shit show. What we did, Boro's unfair reinstatement, the EFL it's on, it's off, it's on, this time, that time nonsense. Our defence, our communication on the matter - etc etc. It's all an absolute mess from everyone.

Apparently according to Talk Sport (I know, I know), the hearing yesterday wasn't undertaken by legal people - just an independent football commissioning panel who plucked some footballing sanctions out of the air, with zero legal thought. So today's appeal will have legal people around the table for the first time. Absolutely no idea how this ends.

''That's one hell of a stretch to come to that conclusion''

No one is using this to fuel any agenda Manji. Give it up, seriously. You're better than this. I can see the big picture and the big picture is that Sport Republic have been the worst thing to have ever happened to this football club.

I'd say they wouldn't be doing this if they knew they wouldn't be there, but we were still selling our tickets this time yesterday. I don't really want it overturned though. The people at this club need to suck it up, own it, and give us poor fans some compensation for all of this.

This all feels like desperation tbh. We're trying to put our side out now via snippets to make us look better, then it'll be a woe be me for us later on in our statement.

That is a fair angle to take, for sure, looking at other sanctions it doesn't seem proportionate. The 'play offs' being seen as a cup competition, rather than a league extension, has muddied it all and confused the EFL/commission I think. But also, look at it this way - we know of 3, and those 3 games weren't in our favour. What if we did this against Wrexham beforehand and ditto Charlton, and got our wins on the back of that? It brings the long winning runs into question, it simply has to. You can't say you've done it 3 times, but only use the examples where it hasn't benefited us as a defence. At this point I think it's clear we've done this across multiple games which have swung in our favour. Who I currently feel sorry for more in all of this are the fans of Wrexham, Millwall, Derby and Hull. Seemingly none of those have got a fair shot if the severity of what we've done, and the relentlessness of it, comes to light. On the outset it seems a small misdemeanour, but you have to feel there is a lot more to it. The EFL have handled it terribly though. But I go back to the fans in all of this - we're the ones being punished as part of all this, the full force of this should be felt by the individuals who have done it. We've done nothing, neither have Hull or Millwall or Wrexham or Derby. We're all being punished.

What the fuck at that EFL statement? Seriously? What a mess they've made of this. Poor Hull City. Fuck me.

This is why I imagine there are the PFA angles being played out at the moment, players will be looking through their contracts for any little thing.

It doesn't mention bullying specifically, but putting together some comments on here with the findings in that article it's easy to come to that conclusion. ''Analysts were upset and knew they'd done wrong, but were following orders from Tonda'' - WhatsApp messages implicated Tonda instructing these analysts to do these trips, including criticism when they didn't get good enough data from the Oxford mission.

Lots of detail around the players thoughts in the Athletic article as well. This has brought reputational damage to them as well, and footballers are 'brands' these days. It's all an absolute mess and I can sense this getting a hell of a lot worse. Law suits will be the order of the entire summer, forget transfers.

I can't agree, I think he was dumb with this. It's the equivalent of admitting full liability at the scene of an accident, even if you are guilty, you don't say a fucking thing. and certainly not in the oppositions backyard. If he really wants to be honourable and hold his hands up, then he'd have communicated to the fans.

That doesn't make sense, the handling of this from the EFL has been piss. As we've clearly been doing this all season, you have to say our playoff place is in question - so fit it into the schedule, put Wrexham or Derby in, let them play Boro and then whoever wins faces Hull. It feels like Boro have been rewarded when they didn't deserve it. I get we have to be punished, but you don't need to issue unjust rewards either.

I think this will be the basis of our appeal today. Why give us -4 points? We'll start with Bazunu in goal instead, that'll be harsher.